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996 4S - the next classic 911?

I think the M96 is done a huge disservice by 996 owners. It is an awesome piece of work, the power delivery, the soundtrack the torque, simply staggering in a road car. In these terms I'd say its one of the best production engines ever.

However it has some design and quality control faults (manifested in cracked heads / cylinders and leaking RMS in the early days now bore score and IMS bearing failure in later engines) which have unfortunately eclipsed this awesomeness.

Now there are known solutions to all of these problems. The early engines with faulty castings have probably all shown themselves by now, and as the 3.6's creep towards 100k miles if their IMS bearing hasn't collapsed they will show scored bores.

Most of these cars will be fixed with good solutions, and some tatty cars will be scrapped as they will inevitably be worth more in parts.

An early 3.4 with stronger IMS bearing and non-scoring ferrous coated pistons is a reliable car - mine shows 118k and is in rude health and some in the states are over 200k with no major issues.

A 3.6 with a rebuilt engine implementing known solutions to design faults will also be a reliable no worries car again.

Both an early 3.4 and a rebuilt 3.6 are undeserving of the ill reputation, and as the demographic of buyer shifts they will realise this.

If the world stays as it is - I think all 996s will be seen as classic and appreciate soon enough, but people are right to be wary of non-rebuilt 3.6s at the current price point - but as the value rises this will be less of an issue.

(In truth however I wonder how long we can keep driving these "dinosaurs" around. I expect petrol and diesel cars will be dead in the next 15 years for commuting and domestic duties. When alternative technologies like battery storage and hydrogen come "of age" fossil prices will rise accordingly through lower demand and carbon taxation - cars like ours will become collectors items rather than useful devices. Future generations will see us as outlandish and excessive with our conspicuous consumption of fossil fuels. So who knows where the classic car market will be in all this.)
 
Mole said:
How many miles does a 993 see in a year compared to a 996 though?

It not down to opinions, it simply down to facts.
:)

Most 993's are up to or near 100,000 miles now, many near 150,000, and nobody is talking rebuilds, failures are so uncommon you will struggle to find a story of an engine rebuild due to failure..

When all 996 cars get to being 20 years old and they all have 100,000-150,000 miles on the clock with no isssues to speak of, then they can compare themselves to the 993 in terms of durability.

But already that will never, and can never happen, ever.
:(

The 996 is unique because there are few brands where the same years previous model (1998 C2 993) is worth three times the price of next model (1998 C2 996). Thiink of another example of that?


A flawed design does not doom something to not being a classic though. Many models of classic cars are riddled with issues. People will spend their entire ownership fighting rust, overheating and dodgy electrics.

They have reached a fix or not fix point for many, people are selling them broken. This WILL make those left rare. Look at a classic car show, Cortinas, Rover SD1's, these were common once but now all gone, only the survivors and looked after remain and they are classics due to this.

:?
 
clarkycat said:
The 996 is unique because there are few brands where the same years previous model (1998 C2 993) is worth three times the price of next model (1998 C2 996). Thiink of another example of that?

Mk2 Golf GTI 16v? The Mk3 (and 4) is a bit rubbish. Ferrari 250 GTO....
 
wasz said:
clarkycat said:
The 996 is unique because there are few brands where the same years previous model (1998 C2 993) is worth three times the price of next model (1998 C2 996). Thiink of another example of that?

Mk2 Golf GTI 16v? The Mk3 (and 4) is a bit rubbish. Ferrari 250 GTO....

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health........
 
I love the rear of the C4S ... think its the best rump on any porsche :)
 
1, All my 996's have blown up, I have had every one of them PPI'd too
..every day I have them serviced at the over priced specialists, I have changed the oil every 2 miles and never gone over 5 mph, they score bores and the IMS bearing fails at an hourly rate, even when I run it on the best fuels and have warmed the engine for an hour before driving it, one of them.. I just looked at and it cracked its cylinder head... so Im going to sell this one.. cheap too, to some poor sod and laugh while he drives away.. happy in the knowledge that it's going to explode like a watch when he try's to get it home after giving me £3000 for it.. and as we all know no other car ever made in history has ever had any built-in issues and especialy expensive marques !!!

...So I'm going to buy a £40k 993 and use it once a year to go to car shows and love being stuck in taffic jams on the way...no heavy clutch here .. no air con either....but I will tell everone how reliable it is... then spend £2k sorting the air-con for next summers show and still not knowing if it actually works, buy a pair of hard backed plastic seats for £6k and take it to the local paint shop ..er sorry "classic car restoration specialists" (great workmanship) and give them £10k to get rid of the rust, and to take daily update photos so I can post them on the forum.. (thats about £300 a picture I reckon) also they tell me "its the best 993 they have ever seen" so I like going there to spend all my money, they make me coffee on Saturday mornings and I never get in the way or bug them ....or I'm going to buy a 996 Turbo and go on about how it's the "best car ever made, in world, ever" - in Jeremy Carkson's voice.. then just talk about the "PPI" I had to have done when I was buying it as I don't really have a clue about cars especially the 996 Turbo....and how I'm trying to get another 400bhp over standard out of it... how the local tuning experts (better than Porsche GMBH and know far more) tell me it's the fastest one they have ever driven a beast of a car..."so I spend my money with them" I will have leak tests done, replacing actuators, and rusty bolts then saying how crap the exhaust note is, which exhaust is best ?, "only buy a manual" I will say as it's a drivers car...as I have far much testoterone in my man veins not admit that actually the tipronic is better most of the time... then go on about what power the standard con rods can take... and group buys on hybrid turbo's... etc etc.. and driving a beast of a car makes me the best driver ever... and I need all that power all the time.. rather than admit, I poop myself when it rains and I can't ever go though a corner flat out ever.. (no better felling than going flat chat though a sweeping corner having just enough power and a very docile way in which it goes to the floor)

or


2, Drive, enjoy, clean and repeat.
if it breaks I will fix it.. oh wait on ...it's not broken. :dont know:
 
:floor:

MC
 
If you accept that the 996/97 cars have chocolate engines , I hope your 964/993 doesn't rust away while waiting for 991 cars to be affordable :dont know:

All cars have problems, pick one you like and enjoy :D if you sell and make a few quid happy days...............
 
My original thread was regarding the 996 4S but great stuff re the 993 v 996 debate. I had an early 996 C2 (1998), bought at about 30k miles and used it every day for 5 years and spent nothing but the servicing and running!
More recently I 'invested' in a 993 and was forever dishing out on this and that, got fed up and sold it. 911 withdrawals set in so bought another 993. Thinking the seller had sorted it with his £9k worth of bills so I was safe, yes?. No! Same result. When I was satisfied I could sell it before anything else broke so it went. Engine in both was ok though. So as I sit here with 911 withdrawals again and being a previously satisfied 996 owner and love the way the 4S cab' looks and it's a *****-load of hardware for the price it's top of my shopping list.
 
petefm10 said:
My original thread was regarding the 996 4S but great stuff re the 993 v 996 debate. I had an early 996 C2 (1998), bought at about 30k miles and used it every day for 5 years and spent nothing but the servicing and running!
More recently I 'invested' in a 993 and was forever dishing out on this and that, got fed up and sold it. 911 withdrawals set in so bought another 993. Thinking the seller had sorted it with his £9k worth of bills so I was safe, yes?. No! Same result. When I was satisfied I could sell it before anything else broke so it went. Engine in both was ok though. So as I sit here with 911 withdrawals again and being a previously satisfied 996 owner and love the way the 4S cab' looks and it's a *****-load of hardware for the price it's top of my shopping list.

Drive, clean, repeat, enjoy.. your next 996 C4s one of the best 911's of all time
 
ursicles said:
I love the rear of the C4S ... think its the best rump on any porsche :)

"Here, here!" :thumb:
 
Ditto , ditto and re, ditto !

I am really impressed with mine, I have now coaxed her up to 52,000 miles now without it imploding !n :wink:
 

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