Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:01 pm Post subject: Porsche Sports Exhaust system just fitted
Hello everyone!
this is my 1st post forgive me for asking stupid questions!
I'm not new to owing 911's, I had 3, 996's a Targa then a C4 and finally a C4s (factory fit PSE) which I sold in 2005 before I moved to the land of sand.
Since then I've been forced to drive a Cayenne Turbo and Cayenne S 2011 model (which I still have) by my boss (aka wife) until recently she relented and let me buy another 911 !!!!
So I have a recently purchased a 2010 Carrera 2S PDK, I've just had Porsche sports exhaust system from my local Porsche centre fitted. They only fitted 2 new rear mufflers not the rear (centre muffler) does the fact they kept the original centre muffler spoil the exhaust tone?
The tone does change when I switch it on /off but I carn't help feeling that it does not sound as good as my 2004 996 C4s.
does the centre muffler make a difference or am I just imagining how good I thought my C4S used to sound?
Maxie Yas Marina
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 Posts: 8406 Location: London
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:17 pm Post subject:
Welcome to 911uk . It has been reported in the past on 911uk that M96 & M97 PSE systems sound different to the MA1 PSE owing to the DFI set up. The latter system is what you have in your car. You are correct to think that it may sound different but I have yet to hear an MA1 PSE system.
~ Maxie _________________ Currently Porscheless, 2018 BMW 640d M Sport +
Ekona Suzuka
Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 1225 Location: Essex
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:10 am Post subject:
They should've replaced the centre silencer as well, as the PSE one is completely different to the stock one. Are you sure they didn't change it? It does look externally identical to the stock one, and I'd be amazed if an OPC didn't fit one if they supplied the kit for you.
Having heard a direct comparison back to back between gen1 and gen2 cars with PSE, I don't think that either sounds better as such, they're both quite different in tone. Gen1 has a better grumble at lower revs, gen2 has a better shriek when you really wind her up. _________________ Dan
As I've researched this one to death for the 997.1 I know only the rear mufflers are changed. All there is additionally is the wiring and the vacuum tubes.
Pretty Pic:
Full list of Parts:
MUFFLER, RIGHT - 997.111.611.02
MUFFLER, LEFT - 997.111.612.02
TAILPIPE (TIP), RIGHT - 997.111.981.20
TAILPIPE (TIP), LEFT - 997.111.982.20
SWITCH-OVER VALVE HOLDER (BRACKET) - 996.111.989.00
HOSE (STEEL ARMORED) 700 MM LONG (2 PCS) - 999.181.205.40
HOSE CLAMP; CLAMPING RANGE 6 MM; WIDTH 7 MM (4 PCS) - 999.512.361.02
HOSE CLIP, 7.0 - 9.0 (4 PCS) - 999.591.746.02
BRANCH PIECE, 3-WAY (Y PIECE) (2 PCS) - 928.573.727.03
PROTECTIVE TUBE, BENT - 928.574.717.03
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM MATERIALS CONSISTING OF: - 997.612.905.01
WIRE HARNESS (4 PCS)
SWITCH-OVER VALVE - 996-605-123.01
TIE WRAPS (12 PCS)
CLAMPING SLEEVE (2 PCS) - 997.111.520.00
M8 NUT, SELF LOCKING (10 PCS) - 900.380.005.09
TIE-WRAP, 3.5x75MM (2 PCS)
LINE (TEKALAN) 4X1X250 - 999.181.374.4
LINE (TEKALAN) 4X1X800 - 999.181.424.4
LINE (TEKALAN) 4X1X580 - 999.181.401.4
Ekona Suzuka
Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 1225 Location: Essex
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject:
Which would be great if the OP had a gen1, which he doesn't, hence the discussion about the centre silencer on the gen2 cars. _________________ Dan
I know, I know. Which is why I prefaced it with 997.1.
No idea about 997.2. I.m working on the assumption they are the same. But I can often be an ASS U ME.
Flameout Newbie
Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Abu Dhabi
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:39 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the replies so far. I can confirm that they did not replace the rear centre part. It is dirty and bolts are corroded the stainless steel is also tarnished.
Ekona Suzuka
Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 1225 Location: Essex
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:09 am Post subject:
plavix wrote:
I know, I know. Which is why I prefaced it with 997.1.
No idea about 997.2. I.m working on the assumption they are the same. But I can often be an ASS U ME.
They're pretty much completely different. Vacuum tubing and wiring looks similar, but it's located in a different place on the gen2 cars where you tap into the vacuum source, so they may be different lengths. Silencers are definitely different though.
Flameout, I take it you did not supply this? What was it you actually asked them to fit? What does the paperwork say?
It's not impossible that Porsche have changed the spec of the PSE to not include the centre silencer any more. Unlikely, but not impossible. _________________ Dan
Ex-997.2 C2S PDK
rickyneil Monza
Joined: 23 Nov 2011 Posts: 200
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:10 am Post subject:
From my own personal experience the PSE does not sound anywhere near as good in my 997.2 as it did in my 996.2. In the 997.2 you can certainly hear the difference but you need to listen for it, with the 996.2 no effort was needed at all. _________________ 2010 C4S Convertible PDK
TVR Tamora 4.0 Red Rose
Ex 2003 C4 Convertible
TVRs
Lotuses
Van Diemen - Great for the Weekend
Weeellll, from the June 11 issue of Flat 6 (French) Porsche said:
"We know that the PSE on the 997.2 isn't the best. There is very little difference in sound with the standard exhaust. The fault lies with the noise reduction standards which we've had to adhere to and which changed between Phase 1 and Phase 2. But since, we've found a way to get very good results these new standards. You will see that on the 991, PSE will be excellent"
So, basically, that's the marketing departments way of saying that PSE on the 997.2 is cr@p, but we've nagged the engineers a bit and they've promised to sort it out on the 991.1. He, he.
And as fpr the centre of the exhaust, is this not the CAT? So would not be changed for PSE in any case.
And, agreed, the rear mufflers/back boxes are a completely different part number. Totally understood as the engine is completely different. The tips are different too. They look like a condom though.
Ekona Suzuka
Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 1225 Location: Essex
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:05 am Post subject:
plavix wrote:
And as fpr the centre of the exhaust, is this not the CAT? So would not be changed for PSE in any case.
And, agreed, the rear mufflers/back boxes are a completely different part number. Totally understood as the engine is completely different. The tips are different too. They look like a condom though.
No, the cats are on the manifolds on the gen2 to help move the weight into the centre of the car. Where the cats sit on the gen1, that's a centre silencer on the gen2.
And I call them the foreskin tips _________________ Dan
Ex-997.2 C2S PDK
Targa4Driver Monza
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 207
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:45 am Post subject:
info for gen 2 PDK parts.
The part number for the centre box is 97 111 159 32 (460.99 +vat ) which is not the same as the non PSE box however I do not think you need to change it.
I have had a 997.1 with PSE which sounded very good, a 997.2 without PSE and a 997.2 with PSE and to be honest its not the loud at all.
3: 2 x Flange gasket 997 111 113 30 4.58+vat
4: 2 x Restraining strap 997 113 119 31 32.16+vat
5: 2 x Clamping sleeve 997 111 220 30 29.33+vat
9: 1 x wiring harness 997 612 905 25 145.22+vat
10: 2 x Holder 999 507 075 40 2.57+vat
11: 1 x Holder 999 507 148 40 1.04+vat
12: 1 x Holder 999 507 902 40 0.41+vat
13: 2 x Protective tube 928 574 717 05 3.82+vat
14: 2 x Screw 900 067 362 01 0.54+vat
15: 1 x Valve holder 997 111 989 30 5.74+vat
16: 1 x Change over valve 7PP 906 270 18.67+vat
17: 2 x Y-piece 928 573 727 05 7.90+vat
18: 2 x Air hose 999 239 042 40 4.95+vat
19: 2 x Flexi-pipe 997 110 016 00 42.76+vat
Not shown;
8 x M8 Nut 900 380 005 01 0.22+vat
6 x Nut 900 910 003 03 1.28+vat
2 x Hose clamp 999 512 361 02 3.85+vat
2 x Pipe 999 181 852 40 20.20+vat
3 x Holder 999 651 401 01 0.54+vat
10 x Tie wrap 999 513 076 40 0.22+vat
3 x Holder 999 507 865 40 0.87+vat
2 x Spacer sleeve 997 111 218 30 4.18+vat
Also req;
1 x Switch Choice Approx £55 + vat
rickyneil Monza
Joined: 23 Nov 2011 Posts: 200
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:36 am Post subject:
plavix wrote:
Weeellll, from the June 11 issue of Flat 6 (French) Porsche said:
"We know that the PSE on the 997.2 isn't the best. There is very little difference in sound with the standard exhaust. The fault lies with the noise reduction standards which we've had to adhere to and which changed between Phase 1 and Phase 2. But since, we've found a way to get very good results these new standards. You will see that on the 991, PSE will be excellent"
So, basically, that's the marketing departments way of saying that PSE on the 997.2 is cr@p, but we've nagged the engineers a bit and they've promised to sort it out on the 991.1. He, he.
Which does beg the question, is the 991, PSE fantastic again? _________________ 2010 C4S Convertible PDK
TVR Tamora 4.0 Red Rose
Ex 2003 C4 Convertible
TVRs
Lotuses
Van Diemen - Great for the Weekend
I had the PSE fitted by my local official Porsche centre who also supplied it.
I must say I'm rather disappointed considering what I paid for it.
Forgive my ignorance does the rear centre muffler have any bearing on the sound? in other words if they had replaced that as well would it sound better?
Ekona Suzuka
Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 1225 Location: Essex
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:31 pm Post subject:
Yes, it does. By how much, I don't know.
Check with them and make sure that the current PSE still includes the centre silencer, Porsche may have changed the spec. You do need to give it a few thousand miles and unplug it for it to have the best results, though. Mine's been on for about 8k miles now and is still deepening in tone _________________ Dan
Ex-997.2 C2S PDK
Flameout Newbie
Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Abu Dhabi
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject:
Unplug it? How ?
GT4 Nordschleife
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 Posts: 30194 Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire
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. It has been reported in the past on 911uk that M96 & M97 PSE systems sound different to the MA1 PSE owing to the DFI set up. The latter system is what you have in your car. You are correct to think that it may sound different but I have yet to hear an MA1 PSE system.
