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Spotted in the road....first impressions

GT4 said:
As I said on another thread (and alluded to in my first drive report): does nothing for me in person.

It might be lighter.
It might be more powerful.
The steering might be worse.
The noise might be louder.
The interior might be too GT.
The price is definitely OTT.
But in the end, it's just a car.

And I'm not sure if it's a 911 anymore.

And if there is any doubt, then there is no doubt.

Bang! Straight to the point again, GT4!

From everything that I've seen and understand, the 991 is superior to the 997.2 in terms of technical-prowess. In terms of looks, I don't think it's a big step forwards. Perhaps the widebody-991s shall accentuate that muscular design-language that I believe the narrow-body 991 is 'trying' to convey.
 
Borrowed from a kindly collater over on PH:

Here are some quotes:


CONCLUSIONS:

Daily Telegraph:
"But is it a better 911? Here the 911 zoo begins a debate on just how scary a 911 should be. I think the 997 predecessor was marginally more of a Porsche."

Automobile Magazine:
"If the 991 is the only 911 you've ever driven, you'll probably think it's the best Porsche ever -- and in many ways we agree. If, on the other hand, you reveled in the old 911's endless feedback; if you relished the thrill of taming a car that didn't really want to be tamed; if you loved the 911 precisely because it wasn't perfect; and, certainly, if you thought that the Porsche 911 was an icon that couldn't be improved and shouldn't be changed, then the 2012 Porsche 911 might not feel like that much of an icon to you."

Car and Driver:
"Meanwhile, the new Carrera is more comfortable and transits quickly, more securely, and with less of the white-knuckle body heaving and tail twitching that has long defined the 911's unique character. Porschephiles may have been wondering at what point their beloved 911 ceases to be a 911 and becomes just a good sports car with an engine in the trunk. That day may have arrived."

CAR:
" Its more refined.more comfortable.and more economical than ever before,but what matters is that it still has that unique 911 feel and character. The outgoing Carrera GTS is more interactive and involving but this new Porsche 911 isn't far behind - while offering a much broader range of talents to a larger audience."

MSN UK:
"It's impossible not to be impressed by what Porsche has achieved with its latest icon. Engineering and technology have been combined to push the boundaries of rear-engined design several steps forward.But it's not a five star car. By building a Porsche for a broader audience of buyers, a few too many of the little things that form an indelible part of the 911 appeal to enthusiasts have been pushed away."

Classic Car (John Simister)
"Objectively the new 911 is outstanding, but part of a 911's appeal has always been its streak of demanding imperfection. That's why I'd sooner snap up an almost-new 997 GTS while I still can. I never thought I'd consider a simple handbrake lever a bringer of joy, but I do now."

Wall Street Journal (Dan Neil)
' If anything, Porsche has managed to dial up the immediacy of the 911, with quicker reflexes"”the electrical steering is first-rate"”a more emotional exhaust note and, at full throttle, the capacity for real, edgy violence. You need only drop the Porsche into second gear and nail the throttle."

"The naturally aspirated, direct-injection 3.8-liter flat six mutters quietly, awaiting its chance. The suspension compliance is velvety, the throttle response relaxed. Porsche's product planners would like the new 911 to appeal to more women. Just call me Nancy.

This car is a work in progress? More like an unfinished masterpiece."

EVO ( quoted from a post here)

'Theres a layer of gauze between you and the car'
'Rather aloof and cold'
'Lacking cohesion and sweet uniformity of weights'
'An inconsistency of connection'
'A general lack of detail through the wheel'
'Sounds like..looks like...but doesnt drive like a 911'


Motor Sport:

"What astounds me is that this is just the start. In time will come the Turbos, GT3s and, lordy me, even GT2 variants – each faster and more ferocious. But if you believe in starting as you mean to go on, it's hard to see how Porsche could have done a much better job of replacing its icon than this."


Autocar:

"I can't honestly think of a new driver's car due out in 2012 that's likely to be better. A Lotus Evora may be a purer, more sweetly balanced thrill, but it lacks complexity next to the 911. An Aston Martin Vantage is a much duller drive; an Audi R8 closer, but no match.




BUT - QUESTIONS
Daily Telegraph
"The seven-speed manual is basically the PDK 'box with slightly different third and seventh ratios. It isn't a success, presenting a bewildering array of five vertical selection planes"

"Only occasionally do you find a slight hollowness in the steering feel, but it's a very clever piece of engineering."

Automobile Magazine:
"In fact, the 2012 Porsche 911 has no temper at all. The rear end never feels like it's going to come unstuck. And the steering? Well, it never feels like much at all. As a result, the new 911 doesn't really feel like a 911"

CAR:
"you'll learn to live with it, but there are many other things you can learn to live with but don't necessarily want to have in your life. If you've ever been behind the wheel of a GT3 then its instantly obvious that that delectable steering feel is missing"

MSN UK
"The longer wheelbase provides most of the improvement and electro-mechanical power steering the rest.

It changes the character. The steering is as sharp and precise as ever, but the feedback from bumps and small surface imperfections has largely disappeared. It's all progress says Porsche, but there are also reasons to mourn the loss of the old 911 character."

Classic Car (John SImister)

"And the steering? Porsche claims it to be the most advanced and most natural-feeling electric system yet invented, with new levels of cleverness in the way it interprets the driver's torque inputs to create the correct effect from the cause. But it feels a bit sloppy around the centre, as if there's a loose rubber joint in the system, and there's little in the way of subtle picture-painting feedback, just a level of resistance the electronics judge suitable"

Motor Sport

"And that steering, while not so garrulously communicative as 911 die-hards might like, makes every other electric steering system I've tried look nothing less than incompetent."



Autocar

"Not to like? There's the slightly mushy centre feel of that electric power steering. Being very picky indeed, you could also say that the shift quality of the manual gearbox leaves a smidge to be desired, and may wonder why Porsche still hasn't made its direct injection engines respond to millimetric throttle adjustments with the same creamy smoothness of its older lumps. But we don't think you'd wonder for very long"




Clarkson ( quoted from a post here)

JC: "... great engine...awful steering"

Hammond: "it's not awful, it just doesn't feel very 911 anymore"

JC: "... they've ruined it."

Hammond: "You're right, they've killed the thing that made it special"
 
991

Living in London I have seen quite a few and I have to look pretty hard to realise its the 991
The badges on the rear are the true test of "is it, is it not"
But... I bought my first Porsche for my 50th birthday as I had always wanted one. A sports car with style and presence
So I bought a silver 9934S and I still have it 10 years on - never to be sold

I still wash it and polish it and think every time , what a great car

My 996 Turbo S does not have anywhere near the character of the 993.

And if I was 50 again ( I wish!!) I would not lust after the current Porsche range and I don't at all lust after a 991 as its lost what I loved about the brand when I bought the 993

For me the Cayman delivers a purer experience and if I sell the 996 Turbo S I may delay another purchase until the new Cayman arrives

But Porsche don't care as they are targeting the AM buyer, Bentley buyer, Merc buyer etc. Not a purist like me
 
...better engineered than the 997?...yes
...better designed/to look at?...err no

IMO Porsche have thrown away too many of the 911's design cues while the new Boxster/Caymen pics look incredible.
 
In 1965 I bought a new Mk 1 Lotus Cortina which I thought at that time was a fantastic car, would I like to go back to it's naff steering hell no, would I like to drive that car again on a regular basis hell no, times/technology moves on.

My dealer has been kind enough to let me borrow a 997/S, GTS and a GT3 over the last 15 month's that I've had my name on a 991.

Each car when pushed into a corner wanted to go straight on!!! not what I'd call ideal.
The fantastic 997 steering that's talked about 'joggled' on the corners and I did not think much of it personally.

With the 991S (non PDCC) I've driven hard into corners and it did not want to go straight on, it just turned into corners and no 'joggling' all I can say is the car now seems like a mid engine car.

If the new car was as the 997 I would not have purchased it because to me it was dangerous going hard into a corner, but then I am age 66 so I like to feel safe

Would I drive hard into corners in my new car hell no, that will be driven like a 66 year old, but nothing better than driving dealers cars hard. :thumb:
 
It looks great. :thumb: Particularly from the angle in Rimmers signature desktop picture. I'm sure he's going to resize it soon. :wink:

I like it a lot, but I'm still coming to terms with the headlights. Need to see one in the flesh. :)
 
ResB said:
It looks great. :thumb: Particularly from the angle in Rimmers signature desktop picture. I'm sure he's going to resize it soon. :wink:

There are bigger sig's than mine, (a certain turbo poster :wink:) but I'll see what I can do when I get my car on Thursday :D

The existing pic is nicked from a PH photo
 
As I understand it, 911's should be pushed hard out of corners rather than into them - may explain why you didn't like them, but my car takes a "lot" of encouragement to actively "under steer", unless it's raining?
 
+1

The 911 engine is in exactly the right place (before the "mid-engined" 991), with mitigation of deceleration weight shift and sling-shot exit acceleration.

The engine over the rear wheels offers unrivalled traction under power, and under braking the CoG shifts perfectly to 50:50 allowing the handling to remain neutral into a corner whilst the steering still remains uncorrupted by excessive nose-heavy weight-shift exhibited in other vehicles.

The 911 layout makes the car perfect for acceleration, and also braking very deep into a corner.

Not so much slow in, fast out, but fast in, fast out.
 
GT4 said:
+1

The 911 engine is in exactly the right place (before the "mid-engined" 991), with mitigation of deceleration weight shift and sling-shot exit acceleration.

The engine over the rear wheels offers unrivalled traction under power, and under braking the CoG shifts perfectly to 50:50 allowing the handling to remain neutral into a corner whilst the steering still remains uncorrupted by excessive nose-heavy weight-shift exhibited in other vehicles.

The 911 layout makes the car perfect for acceleration, and also braking very deep into a corner.

Not so much slow in, fast out, but fast in, fast out.

I think I posted this video somewhere else on here already, this is a very informative video that explains why the 911's weight distribution is (/ can be) very effective - and why F1 cars share a similar weight distribution.

I love watching stuff like this, just makes me want to get in my 911 and go for a drive 8)

 
This afternoon's beautiful weather made me want to get in my 911 and go for a drive.

Sadly, on leaving work, it appeared to be dark :sad:
 

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