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Rumour that next 991 GT3 may only have PDK Gearbox

Hmmm, dunno if I like the idea. If its the only choice I think I would still buy one but surely they can offer both options.

PDK boxes I have used are efficient but are still making decisions for you, if it has a pure, no fiddling with my shifts up or down mode, then could work.
 
I'm wondering if I've just put 2 and 2 together and got 22.

I posted this yesterday - http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=71227

What if Porsche gave us something in between PDK and a manual, ie a sequential gearbox with a clutch like in the video? It seems to work ok in this example, it looks like a nice halfway house that would keep both the manual and PDK crowds happy.

 
You can use the PDK shifter like a sequential box anyway, though thankfully it looks somewhat less like a painful sex toy abomination than in the clip :eek:
 
chimp911 said:
You can use the PDK shifter like a sequential box anyway, though thankfully it looks somewhat less like a painful sex toy abomination than in the clip :eek:

I'm thinking that may be part of the attraction for us GT3 drivers :D

.. Or am I speaking for myself :shutup:

PDK can be used like a sequential 'box, but it doesn't have a manual foot operated clutch like a manual car. The GT3 RS in the video has a clutch that the driver needs to depress in the normal way to change gear, but then the gear changes themselves are via up/down movements rather than an H-pattern manual. I like it a lot, and although I've never tried it I wonder if I'd prefer it to a PDK. Seems to offer the best of both worlds. I don't think anyone offers this in a production car though, and there's probably a good reason, not sure what though!
 
The PDK box is approx 55Ibs/25Kg heavier, so unless they can come up with something else, I can't see it being fitted to a GT/RS anytime soon.

....unless of course the historical traits of GT/RS's is being thrown out the window under the new regime :dont know:
 
Roro said:
chimp911 said:
You can use the PDK shifter like a sequential box anyway, though thankfully it looks somewhat less like a painful sex toy abomination than in the clip :eek:

I'm thinking that may be part of the attraction for us GT3 drivers :D

.. Or am I speaking for myself :shutup:

PDK can be used like a sequential 'box, but it doesn't have a manual foot operated clutch like a manual car. The GT3 RS in the video has a clutch that the driver needs to depress in the normal way to change gear, but then the gear changes themselves are via up/down movements rather than an H-pattern manual. I like it a lot, and although I've never tried it I wonder if I'd prefer it to a PDK. Seems to offer the best of both worlds. I don't think anyone offers this in a production car though, and there's probably a good reason, not sure what though!

One good reason where the shift shown in that video is concerned is the fact that it uses primitive solenoids to actuate the gear change.
May have been improved in the meantime, but when I tried it shifting gear at night caused the headlights to dim because the power consumption was high enough to drag down the voltage.

Some (all?) 997 GT3 RSR racing cars had a purely mechanical sequential shift (similar in action to the one shown) and combined with a normal clutch. But they had dog clutches instead of synchronisers to engage gears, so would hardly be acceptable for street use.
 
I get your point Roro and I fully understand the desire to have full control of the gearchange.

I thought I would always want manual too, as I really don't like slushy or unresponsive auto's, and when I set out to get my first Porsche I was all but certain I'd be buying manual. Then I got the chance to try pdk and I was completely blown away by how capable it was. It can't hope to replace that visceral connection that you have with clutch and gear stick, but it's a very good alternative, those changes are so much faster than any human could hope to achieve and very very addictive.

I've said before that the upshifts aren't as responsive as they could be in manual mode (downshifts are fab), but if they get that right then I really do think even the most hardened of track day specialists will be won over. For the rest of us mere mortals allowing the current box to take care of upshifts is more than acceptable :grin:
 
Roro said:
The GT3 RS in the video has a clutch that the driver needs to depress in the normal way to change gear, but then the gear changes themselves are via up/down movements rather than an H-pattern manual. I like it a lot, and although I've never tried it I wonder if I'd prefer it to a PDK. Seems to offer the best of both worlds. I don't think anyone offers this in a production car though, and there's probably a good reason, not sure what though!

So, it's like a manual for the driver that finds an H box too complex to master? Bet they could sell a few over the pond! Don't really see the benefit.
 
AAT993 said:
Roro said:
The GT3 RS in the video has a clutch that the driver needs to depress in the normal way to change gear, but then the gear changes themselves are via up/down movements rather than an H-pattern manual. I like it a lot, and although I've never tried it I wonder if I'd prefer it to a PDK. Seems to offer the best of both worlds. I don't think anyone offers this in a production car though, and there's probably a good reason, not sure what though!

So, it's like a manual for the driver that finds an H box too complex to master? Bet they could sell a few over the pond! Don't really see the benefit.

One benefit (assuming the sequential shift works flawlessly, of course) is that for track driving you could eliminate the risk of changing down 3 gears at once (due to missing a slot) and over-revving.
 
AAT993 said:
Roro said:
The GT3 RS in the video has a clutch that the driver needs to depress in the normal way to change gear, but then the gear changes themselves are via up/down movements rather than an H-pattern manual. I like it a lot, and although I've never tried it I wonder if I'd prefer it to a PDK. Seems to offer the best of both worlds. I don't think anyone offers this in a production car though, and there's probably a good reason, not sure what though!

So, it's like a manual for the driver that finds an H box too complex to master? Bet they could sell a few over the pond! Don't really see the benefit.

That sounds like something Clarkson would say :)

Sequential 'boxes are used extensively in racing primarily to minimise the risk of damage caused by accidentally shifting from say 5th to 2nd instead of 4th, but also because changes are quicker than a standard manual.

I like the idea but sounds from Chimp911 and Red993 that a) PDK is quicker and b) sequential manuals may have day-to-day usability issues. Anyway, interesting debate, I'm really excited to see what Porsche deliver... 8)
 
Ok, so I am playing devil's advocate a bit here:

GT4 said:
Here are some wise words from Sir Jackie Stewart's book "Principles of Performance Driving":

Chapter 4 - The High Speed Technique.
"On the subject of gear changing techniques, I have always believed that you should take as little out of the car's transmission as possible that obviously means gentle, sympathetic changes when going up through the gears, but also by using the brakes to their maximum when slowing down, often missing gears while changing down through the box. Many people think that racing drivers go all the way down through the gears in a six-speed box like a machine gun. But that means you're taking on a juggling act: steering, operating the pedals, blipping the throttle and using the gear lever like a madman. I always chose to change down by jumping through gears.
........from sixth to fourth to second.
That applies to wet or dry conditions, although you need to be careful how you do it in the wet, perhaps eliminating all the down changes, using the brakes to knock off your speed, and then finally slipping from sixth to first gear right at the end. Remember, you are not going to stop any faster by using the transmission. Brakes are made to stop a car, gears are primarily for acceleration. Deceleration was not part of the gearbox's original purpose: don't abuse it. "

Then again,what would he know? Perhaps it all depends on a drivers skill level.

The point I was trying to make is that when a clutch is introduced, you can't "flat-shift" so you might as well stick to an H box. If you want sequential (to ensure no mistakes), why not add a flat shift. Is this not what PDK achieves? :boxer:
 
If that's the point you were trying to make first time round, you weren't very successful :D

Fair point, makes sense :thumb:
 
This is a really tough one.

I have a 996 tip and although it has it's limitations, and is relatively slow (though still quicker than a manual change) I do enjoy using it, particularly on country roads.

I recently took a 991S PDK for a day, and that box is just amazing!

Such quick changes and the little blips when you downshift are awesome.

But... it is a GT3, and as many have mentioned, lightweight is the way forward. 25kg isn't that much in weight and you can throw in a few more horses to negate that.

So guess it comes back down to driving experience. Ultimately it takes more skill and practice to perfect a manual gearchange than a PDK...

So I guess it needs to be manual... probably
 
I just hope it's a PDK box, the new version is a fair bit smother than the 997 one :drive:
 
I was talking to a member of staff at an OPC recently and he said he heard that the GT3 team had to fight really hard last time to ensure that the 997 GT3 had a manual box. I thought that was very interesting as it seemed to indicate that outside (political) influences were the driver toward the GT3 being PDK as opposed to the development team wanting it.
 

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