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michal12
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Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:34 am    Post subject: How about a Carrera T with 460hp?? Reply with quote

Anyone has the same feeling that the gap between Careera S and the Turbo is too wide?
I mean the Carrera S costs EUR 100k and the Turbo EUR 150k. That is 50% more. I know there are the Targas, convertibles and hardcore wing-littered variants.
As I do not really like 4wd nature and crap sound of a Turbo, I would personally appreciate a more powerful Carrera S. The S is not so dynamically exciting as it should be, I think. The hp per ton of the 991 Carrera S is lower that of the turbo M5. So how about a soft turbo, wide body and RWD variant, maybe a “Carrera T”? It could have around 460hp to crack 330hp per ton.
What do you guys think?
 
  
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MisterCorn
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Joined: 08 Jan 2011
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2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if it is turbocharged they would be hard pressed to stop people modifying it to bring the power up to the same level as the turbo and would be doing themselves out of some sales on the turbos.
IMO there are enough models already, so there is a gap, that's good. You don't need a continuous run of different models to find just the power / weight ratio you are after.
The turbo should be the top of the tree, a significant step up from the model below, not just a small incremental increase. I like it that way Smile

MC
 
  
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Maxie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: How about a Carrera T with 460hp?? Reply with quote

michal12 wrote:
I would personally appreciate a more powerful Carrera S. The S is not so dynamically exciting as it should be, I think. The hp per ton of the 991 Carrera S is lower that of the turbo M5. So how about a soft turbo, wide body and RWD variant, maybe a “Carrera T”? It could have around 460hp to crack 330hp per ton.
What do you guys think?


Hopefully a Carrera GTS should plug the gap you are seeking a la 997 GTS?

~ Maxie Question
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Ant Blain
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Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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Location: Manchester

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely it's too early to say if there truly is a gap in the range; all indications currently point to the 991 Carrera S being almost as capable as a 997 turbo, and the standard Carrera has been downsized to a 3.4 to put a bit more distance between it and the S model. So if you ignore the bhp figures (and in some ways you should, as Porsche horses are always particularly strong horses and are helped by relatively low kerb weight) then the new Carrera S is probably the car you are wanting (i.e. it's a step up from the 997 Carrera S).

However, as no-one has actually driven a 991 yet (not even the usual motoring hacks) I don't think we can assume it to be 'not so dynamically exciting as it should be' at this stage. I've a sneaking suspicion that it will be brilliant, and probably won't need another 50bhp. That said, now VAG are sticking their mucky paws in, I can see the model line-up being extended further and would put money on a diesel variant inside two years (Carrera TDi with an S-line kit, anyone?)... frustrated
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Maxie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant Blain wrote:
That said, now VAG are sticking their mucky paws in, I can see the model line-up being extended further and would put money on a diesel variant inside two years (Carrera TDi with an S-line kit, anyone?)... frustrated


That would seem a probable argument, after all there is an Audi R8 V12 diesel kicking around albeit not for sale. But given the fact diesel engines weigh much more than the equivalent petrol engines, I'm not so sure one will find it's way over the rear axle of a 991 as this car was well into development before VW acquired Porsche. Perhaps on the 992?

~ Maxie Question
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Jamie
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they need any more in the model line up. Let's not forget as well you don't get all variants of the new generation at the same time as well, it is a gradual rollout.

If it's not available now, surely they will be doing a power upgrade pack for the C2S like the X51 on the 997? Thus bridging the gap for anyone who cares for it.
 
  
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pzero
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cost for options aside, the price between the Carrera S and the Carrera GTS is relativley narrow, the difference in handling and performance however, for the price differential is quite exceptional!
Check it out.
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X51
 
  
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nick w
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Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5170
Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:
X51


...That's sure to arrive a year down the line, and usually another 26 bhp !!
Grin
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GT4
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact is, it is not the gap between the Carrera S and Turbo where any additional model (or PowerKit) is positioned, but between Carrera S and GT3.

The Turbo is just so much more powerful the linear average between the Carrera S and Turbo is generally closer to the GT3 output, and that still has to be more than an X51/GTS.

So my money is on:

PowerKit X51 (315 KW / 428 PS) inc Sports exhaust system £9,525

With 991 GT3 at 340 KW/462 PS and 991 Turbo at 390 KW/530 PS
 
  
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AAT993
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 469
Location: Surrey

1996 Porsche 993 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:

So my money is on:

PowerKit X51 (315 KW / 428 PS) inc Sports exhaust system £9,525

With 991 GT3 at 340 KW/462 PS and 991 Turbo at 390 KW/530 PS


Now that would be a tasty power line up. Smile
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nick w
Zolder


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
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2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Power outputs only go one way...up, with more economy !! and long may it
continue.. Cool
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michal12
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Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 25



PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i see your point and agree with your suggested power outputs, as they probably will happen like this.
i guess my point was the hypethetical Carrera T could happily live next to GT3 with relatively similar hp as they would appeal to different demographic.



GT4 wrote:
The fact is, it is not the gap between the Carrera S and Turbo where any additional model (or PowerKit) is positioned, but between Carrera S and GT3.

The Turbo is just so much more powerful the linear average between the Carrera S and Turbo is generally closer to the GT3 output, and that still has to be more than an X51/GTS.

So my money is on:

PowerKit X51 (315 KW / 428 PS) inc Sports exhaust system £9,525

With 991 GT3 at 340 KW/462 PS and 991 Turbo at 390 KW/530 PS
 
  
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michal12
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Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 25



PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: How about a Carrera T with 460hp?? Reply with quote

Yes, GTS is nice but it comes very late in the model lifecycle, which reduces its appeal somewhat for me. The next GTS will come like 2016 or so...

Maxie wrote:
michal12 wrote:
I would personally appreciate a more powerful Carrera S. The S is not so dynamically exciting as it should be, I think. The hp per ton of the 991 Carrera S is lower that of the turbo M5. So how about a soft turbo, wide body and RWD variant, maybe a “Carrera T”? It could have around 460hp to crack 330hp per ton.
What do you guys think?


Hopefully a Carrera GTS should plug the gap you are seeking a la 997 GTS?

~ Maxie Question
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michal12 wrote:
i see your point and agree with your suggested power outputs, as they probably will happen like this.
i guess my point was the hypethetical Carrera T could happily live next to GT3 with relatively similar hp as they would appeal to different demographic.


Surely that will be the 991 GT3 Comfort with optional rear seats and PDK 'box Dont know

Re: GTS - the X51 has generally appeared within a year of new model launch.
 
  
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Sidicks
Trainee


Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 98



PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: How about a Carrera T with 460hp?? Reply with quote

michal12 wrote:
Anyone has the same feeling that the gap between Careera S and the Turbo is too wide?
I mean the Carrera S costs EUR 100k and the Turbo EUR 150k. That is 50% more. I know there are the Targas, convertibles and hardcore wing-littered variants.
As I do not really like 4wd nature and crap sound of a Turbo, I would personally appreciate a more powerful Carrera S. The S is not so dynamically exciting as it should be, I think. The hp per ton of the 991 Carrera S is lower that of the turbo M5. So how about a soft turbo, wide body and RWD variant, maybe a “Carrera T”? It could have around 460hp to crack 330hp per ton.
What do you guys think?


1) how do you know the price of the (not yet released) 991 Turbo?

2) How do you know the Carrera S is 'not so exciting as it should be' ?

3) As has been stated, the gap between 'S' and Turbo will be filled by two (or maybe three) cars with different objectives - a more extreme GT3 (maybe a hardcore RS version) and also the 'S' version with Powerkit (which presumably will be an X52, rather than X51??)
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GT4
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X51 is the option code, that won't change.

X50 is the Turbo PowerKit, X51 is the Carrera PowerKit.

M030 is the sports chassis, it doesn't increment with model.
 
  
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Maxie
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Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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Location: London


PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: How about a Carrera T with 460hp?? Reply with quote

michal12 wrote:
Yes, GTS is nice but it comes very late in the model lifecycle, which reduces its appeal somewhat for me. The next GTS will come like 2016 or so...


That's on the basis of a single model.

Who's to say the 991 GTS won't appear sooner? Whilst S versions of the 993 appeared relatively late in that model life-cycle, the S version of the 996 appeared half-way through it's life cycle whilst the S version of the 997 appeared at the very beginning of it's lifecycle.

I am betting that a GTS will appear relatively early in the 991 lifecycle compared to the 997.

~ Maxie
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Sidicks
Trainee


Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 98



PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:
X51 is the option code, that won't change.

X50 is the Turbo PowerKit, X51 is the Carrera PowerKit.


Ok, thanks for that, I'd seen 'X50' in reference to 996 cars and 'X51' in reference to 997 cars and put 2 and 2 together to make 5...!
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