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alexwagner
Newbie


Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Review : I just bought a fabulous RS 3.0 replica! Reply with quote

Hi guys,

I just wanted to share my latest toy with you - because I'm very excited!

Last week, a good friend of mine who deals in classic 911's in France called to let me in on a very special 911 that he had heard was about to come on to the market...

It was a 1972 911 2.4S updated to 1974 Carrera RS 3.0 spec. I've always loved the RS 3.0, because it combines vintage delicacy and charm with unashamed brawn and menace. This was the first butch-looking street 911 remember, the very first to have what later became known as the "turbo-look" wide body and the very first to sport the now mythical whale tale.

It must have been very striking indeed back in 1974... Smile

Some photos:



















------------------
*** INSPECTION ***
------------------

To cut a long story short, once I saw the complete spec and photos, I asked my friend to quickly inspect the car. He put the car on a ramp and spent 2 hours poking around. His verdict : well preserved in and out, clean and perfectly rust free, very straight chassis and tight body alignments, well upgraded and with all the original 2.4S bits present. Smile

Based on my friend's inspection, I reserved it over the phone, went over to drive it and bought it - before it got a chance to come onto the market! Smile

Now, a bit about this special car:

---------------
*** HISTORY ***
---------------

This 1972 911 2.4S was comprehensively upgraded in 2000 to full Carrera RS 3.0 spec. The car personally belonged to one of Charles Rupp's mechanics, who upgraded it using parts supplied by Rupp (Rupp is THE classic RS specialist in France, who also happens to own one of the 55 real road-going RS 3.0!).

Here is a photo of Rupp's real RS 3.0:



Later, when Rupp's mechanic (the owner) needed cash, Rupp sold it complete with waranty, as one of his approved classic cars.

------------
*** SPEC ***
------------

Not only does the car have all the original 2.4S features, it also has all the proper factory upgrades to RS 3.0 spec, including:

- Factory steel RS 3.0 front and rear wings
- Lightweight fiberglass bumpers, bonnet, engine cover and spoiler
- The whale tale is the correct (and rare) rubber lipped one, complete with secondary grill
- Polished Fuchs wheels
- The fuel tank is the lightweight plastic RS tank
- The fuse box was moved to the left of the front compartment, as per RS 3.0 spec
- A polished aluminium full Heigo cage
- Nomex bucket seats, with shells painted silver and Schroth harnesses
- RS 2.7 brakes
- Front-mounted oil cooler
- Lightweight low-inertia crankshaft as per the RS 3.0 (unlike the SC 3.0, 930 Turbo or 911 3.2)
- Bosch #19 mechanical injection pump as per the RS 3.0 Cool
- 3.0 cylinders with 10.3:1 high compression pistons (up from the 9.8:1 RS 3.0 pistons, made possible thanks to modern 98RON fuel) Cool
- Power output of 250BHP
- Weight of about 980Kg (the same as an RS 2.7 Light, while the real RS 3.0 was a bit lighter still...)

Oh, in case you're wondering, the features that a real RS 3.0 has over and above this replica are:
- 917 brakes Cool
- thin-gauge steel for doors and roof Cool
- thin-gauge glass Cool

I've gotta run right now, so next time I'll tell you how it drives! (hint : very impressive and exciting, but with one disappointment...)

Cya,

Alex
 
  
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5804
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

worship thumbsup

*makes note to self to add to iwantoneofthose list*
 
  
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Daniel
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 11933
Location: Not where I want to be!

2000 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW

You have got a very nice and rare car there.

Well done Thumb

And welcome to 911uk - bye

(you lucky git) puh
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tbrown
Paul Ricard


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 3419
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2007 Porsche Cayman

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is very very nice Thumb
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alexwagner
Newbie


Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx guys!

Oh, I'd like your opinion on classic 911 replicas in general (RS, RSR):

I'm all for faithful recreations that give 95%+ of the experience of the real thing, but at a fraction of the price (a real RS 3.0, if you can find one, would cost £300K...).

I'm much less enthusiastic about so-called hommage/evocation cars that offer some cosmetic elements, but with an incomplete experience. Typical are the SC / 3.2 based replicas that use the heavier post-1977 crankshaft and electronic injection rather than the more lively mechanical injection.

That said, the 3.2-G50 based cars offer the possibility of monster 350BHP+ power, albeit at the expense of that delicate classic feel...

But that's just me. Others might think that updating a perfectly good classic 911 2.4S is sacriledge... no matter how well the work is done...

What do you think???
 
  
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Achtung
Kyalami


Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 1997



PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexwagner wrote:
Thx guys!

Oh, I'd like your opinion on classic 911 replicas in general (RS, RSR):

I'm all for faithful recreations that give 95%+ of the experience of the real thing, but at a fraction of the price (a real RS 3.0, if you can find one, would cost £300K...).

I'm much less enthusiastic about so-called hommage/evocation cars that offer some cosmetic elements, but with an incomplete experience. Typical are the SC / 3.2 based replicas that use the heavier post-1977 crankshaft and electronic injection rather than the more lively mechanical injection.

That said, the 3.2-G50 based cars offer the possibility of monster 350BHP+ power, albeit at the expense of that delicate classic feel...

But that's just me. Others might think that updating a perfectly good classic 911 2.4S is sacriledge... no matter how well the work is done...What do you think???


I am in this group. A genuine and honest 911 2.4S in first class condition would be a delight to own.

A 2.4S turned into... for example a 2.7RS is not and will never be a 2.7RS.

Every time you meet another enthusiast you would have to start off the conversation by saying... It's not a 2.7RS, its a an attempt to COPY or be as much like a 2.7RS as possible.

That sets your car in a negative light from day one whereas in reality the original car that the copy is based on was a car worthy of honest merit in it's own right.

For the same reasons I could never quite "get" the concept of the 3.2 Carrera Supersport (turbo body) or indeed the 993 S (turbo body)

Again with both of these cars you will meet people who will say to you "is it a turbo"? Again you have to start off by saying.... "... NO...It's not a turbo..."

The other thing about the supersport and 993 S, neither had any performance gain over the "cooking versions" that they were based on, so what is the point really.....

I remember when I bought my 911 2.7 LUX many years ago, Cahal Curley said to me that I should put a Carrera Graphic along the sides...
I said to him "But its not a Carrera, It's a 2.7 LUX" ...

My views on this type of thing have never changed in the intervening years! Cool Smile


At the end of the day You can never quite make a race horse out of a Donkey!
 
  
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Daniel
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 11933
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2000 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.911uk.com/garage.php?mode=view_vehicle&CID=108

Worth a look
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barty964rst
Montreal


Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 512
Location: Air Cooled Plateau

1992 Porsche 964 RS

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a lovely car, with some very nice period gear to boot. I think it is fabulous and a great Rep.
No problem with it being a Rep if you bought it and enjoy it as such. The only issue I would have in building one, it the money you invest in it you will never recoup.
I would certainly consider buying one that has been completed!
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adamw
Estoril


Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Posts: 3546
Location: West Sussex

2002 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meant to post here earlier but didn't get round to it.

Fantastic looking & very original car. I would echo barty964rst comments above Agree

Enjoy it, i'm sure you will. Very Cool looking car.

I hope the driving experience is equally as good thumbsup
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alexwagner
Newbie


Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*** Driving it! ***

My classic-911-expert friend & I both drove the car.

Straight off, the engine felt very lively in neutral, throttle blips sending the revs soaring up and down, thanks no doubt to the small pre-77 crank.

Moving off, the car initially felt like a very light and lively lorry. Strange. I guess it's that classic car feel (new to me), and is probably largely down to the 915 gearbox. Anyway, that initial strange sensation only lasted a few seconds.

On the road, the engine felt surprisingly strong and torquey. The high-compression 3.0 just chucks the lightweight car down the road. My expert friend reckoned it was the easily the punchiest classic 911 he'd ever tried (and he's driven over a hundred, including RS 2.7's). I've owned a 993RS before, and to be honest the 993 didn't feel any stronger below about 3500rpm.

In the tunnel under La Défense, the car zipped up to 110mph in no time, which dispelled the doubts I had that a "classic" wouldn't feel fast by modern standards. It probably isn't a massively fast car, but it feels fast enough because it bombards you with sensations.

The power delivery is very linear, which is objectively "good" I suppose, although I must say I do prefer peakier engines that suddenly "come on cam", so perhaps I'll change the cams sometime... Thing is, I might then miss all that lovely torque... so I'll wait and see how I feel after a few months.

The long-throw 915 gearbox wouldn't be rushed, and felt like driving a tractor at first, lol. I'm new to classics, remember, and the 915 gearbox would be a joke in a new car today. But my mate said if was fresh and precise as they get, and I soon got the hang of it. So that's ok.

The Bilstein suspension is nice and firm (I like that) without being harsh.(I've had a road-registered 964 Cup before, which was almost dangerous on the road - unlike this classic). I'll be using the car a couple of times a year on track, as well as sunny-day road driving, and this setup feels well adapted.

The brakes initially felt pretty horrid, lol. Unservoed, they were wooden (again, I'm new to classics) and didn't inspire confidence (coming from a 993RS... well... need I say more?). I tested them properly though, and when you lean on them hard, they do stop the car very effectively. My mate said they were fine.

The steering was something of a revelation. No deadzone whatsoever, and no rubber. Start to flex an arm and the car changes direction like a go kart. Very alive and precise, just like a modern car. My friend said it was the best classic steering he'd sampled, that they certainly weren't like this out of the box, and that some serious work and setting up had obviously been done.

The dissappointment for me was the exhaust note. It sounded a bit... discrete and thin. I expected more bark from such a butch-looking car. I've ordered a stainless Dansk with twin outlets, so that should give it more of a bassy howl. Smile

To sum up, my mate said it was quite clearly the best driving and most fun classic 911 he'd ever driven, including RS 2.7.

As for me, I couldn't help think how much fun an RS 3.0 must have been back in 1974... among the Cortinas and Marinas, lol

I've bought this car to complete my little collection (Ferrari 360 Spider ticks the "supercar" & "convertible" boxes, BMW X5 4.6iS ticks the "taking friends out", "moving furniture" and "going skiing" boxes, and the RS 3.0 is to tick the "classic" and "track" boxes).

I intend using the RS for fun road driving, for a couple of trackdays a year, and for classic car meetings like Le Mans Classic, Goodwood Revival, etc.

For now though, I'm just looking forward to tucking it away next to my 360! Smile

Alex
 
  
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alexwagner
Newbie


Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 9



PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Achtung wrote:
alexwagner wrote:
Thx guys!

Oh, I'd like your opinion on classic 911 replicas in general (RS, RSR):

I'm all for faithful recreations that give 95%+ of the experience of the real thing, but at a fraction of the price (a real RS 3.0, if you can find one, would cost £300K...).

I'm much less enthusiastic about so-called hommage/evocation cars that offer some cosmetic elements, but with an incomplete experience. Typical are the SC / 3.2 based replicas that use the heavier post-1977 crankshaft and electronic injection rather than the more lively mechanical injection.

That said, the 3.2-G50 based cars offer the possibility of monster 350BHP+ power, albeit at the expense of that delicate classic feel...

But that's just me. Others might think that updating a perfectly good classic 911 2.4S is sacriledge... no matter how well the work is done...What do you think???


I am in this group. A genuine and honest 911 2.4S in first class condition would be a delight to own.

A 2.4S turned into... for example a 2.7RS is not and will never be a 2.7RS.

Every time you meet another enthusiast you would have to start off the conversation by saying... It's not a 2.7RS, its a an attempt to COPY or be as much like a 2.7RS as possible.

That sets your car in a negative light from day one whereas in reality the original car that the copy is based on was a car worthy of honest merit in it's own right.

For the same reasons I could never quite "get" the concept of the 3.2 Carrera Supersport (turbo body) or indeed the 993 S (turbo body)

Again with both of these cars you will meet people who will say to you "is it a turbo"? Again you have to start off by saying.... "... NO...It's not a turbo..."

The other thing about the supersport and 993 S, neither had any performance gain over the "cooking versions" that they were based on, so what is the point really.....

I remember when I bought my 911 2.7 LUX many years ago, Cahal Curley said to me that I should put a Carrera Graphic along the sides...
I said to him "But its not a Carrera, It's a 2.7 LUX" ...

My views on this type of thing have never changed in the intervening years! Cool Smile


At the end of the day You can never quite make a race horse out of a Donkey!



Fair enough.

I guess the thing is, I'd feel proud rather than apologetic telling someone that I drive a 1972 911 2.4S updated to 1974 RS 3.0 spec. Wink

Also, I like a car with an interesting story and provenance.
 
  
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