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996_fan
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Lytham St Annes


PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:48 pm    Post subject: Advice on Selling Privately Reply with quote

Apologies if this has been covered before, or if there’s advice on the web, but I’m looking for personal opinion.

I’m a genuine case of ‘new baby forces sale’; so my 4-wheeled one has to go. (2002 996 C4)

I want to have a go at selling privately on this site and Autotrader etc, and wondered what people’s thoughts / experiences were for the following:

Question 1) Giving test drives – Is it down to me to get the car insured for this? Do I expect prospective buyers to be covered fully comp to drive it? Do I just give the test drive myself if they aren’t insured? Would you buy a car that you were driven in, but couldn’t drive yourself?

Question 2) Taking payment – heard lots of scare stories about dodgy bankers drafts or copies of real ones. What’s the safest bet, do I wait until a cheque has cleared? If you were buying would you hand a cheque over and then wait to get the keys? Would you do the exchange at a bank and pay cash?

I bought my from a dealer so neither were an issue, but I appreciate any opinion or experience of people who have bought and sold privately.

Thanks very much.
 
  
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pmjt
Nürburgring


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice on Selling Privately Reply with quote

Quote:
Buyer and Seller Fraud Protection advice from 911uk

http://911uk.com/template.php?page=59



996_fan wrote:

Question 1) Giving test drives – Is it down to me to get the car insured for this? Do I expect prospective buyers to be covered fully comp to drive it? Do I just give the test drive myself if they aren’t insured? Would you buy a car that you were driven in, but couldn’t drive yourself?


NEVER allow someone to drive your car without insurance - it's not only a civil matter if they damage your / other people's property - it's a criminal matter if you allowed it knowingly and they caused injury.

Most reputable insurers will add a driver for a day - some for nothing (like mine) - some for a small charge - they will want to know that the person has a valid driving license, SO INSIST ON SEEING it with you own eyes - and ideally another form of ID to satisfy yourself they are who they say they are and not using a license for £50 down the pub.

NEVER allow someone to cover your car on their insurance - how do you know they're not lying / ***** it - only if YOU cover the car yourself for the driver AND you satisfy yourself they're entitled to drive the car should you then - CAUTIOSLY - allow someone to drive it.

First take them on a gentle piece of road where you know you can end the drive early if they're a muppet - and if you're relaxed with their driving, then allow them a bigger / faster piece of road.

No-one who's serious about buying a car to own will want to thrash the nuts off it on a test drive.



996_fan wrote:
Question 2) Taking payment – heard lots of scare stories about dodgy bankers drafts or copies of real ones. What’s the safest bet, do I wait until a cheque has cleared? If you were buying would you hand a cheque over and then wait to get the keys? Would you do the exchange at a bank and pay cash?


A serious buyer should want the car inspected (unless it has a warranty on it already) - so suggest that you take the car to the inspection place (OPC?) and leave it with them in their care until the cash has been received in your account, in cleared funds, through a CHAPS (same day) or BACS (three day) transfer.

Anyone who's not prepared to pay the £20 charges for a CHAPS isn't a serious buyer.

Drafts are now unsafe in my personal opinion - there are far too many fakes out there and even if you call the branch to validate the draft, the bank is still able to refuse the draft if it's faked - or, from stories I've heard, if the funds are 'double withdrawn' by the account holder - just don't risk a draft anymore.

I would also recommend getting a deposit (10%?) cheque - even if you don't bank it - if someone is prepared to write a cheque out then they're serious, before you haul the car to the dealer for inspection - EVEN if they arrange the inspection - as the work has been conducted on YOUR property, the garage have the right to a lien on the car and may not release it without the inpsection being paid for, if the deal falls through.

GET A WRITTEN purchase agreement in place - saying they agree to buy, subject to inspection etc., at the agreed price and that they will pay 'where time for payment is of the essence' - basically I've had jokers (VERY serious car buyers pay a deposit, then after a week of chasing offer to pay me in installments - on £250k car - it's the truth!) - if they have agreed that time is of the essence you are entitled to charge them costs / forfeiture of deposit if they fail to pay in a 'reasonable' time - always take legal advice on what constitutes a reasonable time.

Personally, I've found it easier to believe that 99.999% of people are completely trustworthy - but don't leave yourself open to the 0.001% who aren't Smile

HTH

Philip

Last edited by pmjt on Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7324
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great advice here I reckon- Mods, could this thread be stickied for future ref?
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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Rodders
Magny-Cours


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 2594
Location: Banchory

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in addition to Phillip's excellent advice re the test drive.............NEVER allow the viewer to be left alone with the keys to the car(ie keys in the ignition and you getting out to swap places)
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pmjt
Nürburgring


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 430
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodders wrote:
in addition to Phillip's excellent advice re the test drive.............NEVER allow the viewer to be left alone with the keys to the car(ie keys in the ignition and you getting out to swap places)


That's a great point - which I forgot to mention Embarassed

When you go out for a drive - YOU drive first, then after five minutes or so, pull over - switch the engine off, TAKE THE KEYS OUT - swap seats and hand them the keys.

Well spotted Smile
 
  
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Rodders
Magny-Cours


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 2594
Location: Banchory

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmjt wrote:
Rodders wrote:
in addition to Phillip's excellent advice re the test drive.............NEVER allow the viewer to be left alone with the keys to the car(ie keys in the ignition and you getting out to swap places)


That's a great point - which I forgot to mention Embarassed

When you go out for a drive - YOU drive first, then after five minutes or so, pull over - switch the engine off, TAKE THE KEYS OUT - swap seats and hand them the keys.

Well spotted Smile


I have my moments Laughing Laughing
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wagonface
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1427
Location: Esher

1991 Porsche 964 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHAPS payments - can anyone confirm they are non-refundable? ie the buyer cant drive off with your car and then call his bank and get them to reverse the CHAPS payment. I believe that is the case but just wanted to check. Thanks for any help, Josh
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rlw
Trainee


Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 73



PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHAPS payments CAN be recalled automatically by the sending bank if the uncleared funds they hold do not clear and this can take up to five working days I think - its rare but as one who sees an awful lot of CHAPS payments I have seen it happen once or twice.
 
  
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brendan996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 259
Location: Hertfordshire


PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth finding out if the buyer has the same bank as yourself. This may seem unlikely but most people have several different bank accounts. When I bought my car we both had the same bank, so I was able to go to the same bank near the seller transfer the funds via my switch card. Took about 20 minutes
 
  
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adam2712
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 342
Location: Solihull

1998 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as far as payment, cash and a fake currency identification pen also works.
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Iga88
Newbie


Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: wow Reply with quote

Great advice here..thanks:)
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Last edited by Iga88 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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adrian996
Hockenheim


Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 668
Location: The Graveyard of Ambition.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be absolutely sure I would avoid all CHAPS / BACS, etc and take cash only. I would also tell any potential buyer that I will be the only one doing the driving and that I will be expecting the buyer to visit during business hours so that we can both take the cash to the bank together and get it all checked out and paid in to your account. This is the only way that you can guarantee that you'll get the money. If the bank clerk doesn't spot that the cash is fake it's then their problem - not yours.

I would try to get these points across to the buyer before they leave home to travel to view the car. This way you've already 'set out your stall' before they arrive & there'll be no potential awkward moments that could put you under pressure.

I would also highly recommend having a mate (or three) at the house with you if possible. You don't necessarily have to let on that you have people with you. No intimidation, etc. You don't want to put off a good buyer!

The bigger picture regarding all of the above is that any genuine buyer wouldn't question any of it. If people start putting obstacles & excuses in the way then I would only proceed with caution - as they say. Either that or move on.

One more tip: I wouldn't give your exact address either. I would plan to meet the buyer somewhere and then escort them back to your place after you've met them - preferably in a different car to the one you're selling.

Any real buyer would want to make sure that your address is the same as the one on the V5 but I'd avoid just giving your exact address out over the 'phone as they'll know exactly where the car is from that point on. Just a thought. Cop
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Well-weathered leather,
Hot metal and oil,
The scented country air.
Sunlight on chrome,
The blur of the landscape,
Every nerve aware!

FOR SALE!! - MY03 996.2, Seal Grey, graphite, M030, K&N, Design Tek CAI (Brrrrrrrrrrrr!!!).
 
  
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RichiRich
Suzuka


Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 1037
Location: Luxembourg


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If going down the cash route, you should also make sure there is a receipt for them drawing the money from their bank account. If the buyer doesn't have the proof of where the funds came from (and it's a large amount), your bank may not (and should not) accept the cash (in one go) because of the anti-money laundering policy that they operate.
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Speed Yellow / Black

Ex - 2003 996 Carrera 4S
Ex - 1992 964 Turbo X33 (#777)
 
  
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scottuk
Hockenheim


Joined: 06 Sep 2012
Posts: 738
Location: Broughty Ferry

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a few chances when purchasing my C4S, bought private, travelled from N.E Scotland to South of England, and paid Cash!

I built up a relationship with the seller, and he was a decent, enthusiast, who informed me prior to my arrival that he would not touch the cash, preferring to ferry me to his bank where they would count and check it, of course this could have gone very pear shaped for me, as we laughed about over a coffee before I headed North in my new purchase. Not suitable for all, but cash does have a lot of power.
Bandit
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adrian996
Hockenheim


Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 668
Location: The Graveyard of Ambition.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any minute now this poor guy is going to ditch this whole idea! Floor

The next day: "What's that you say, Mr. OPC? You'll take it off my hands for £12K and put it up on your forecourt for £21K within the week? And what with it being black with black leather which is a bad colour combination, even though my car is blue with grey leather - but you'll give me the benefit of the doubt on this occasion(?!). And what with the situation in North Korea and that there's nothing decent to watch on telly on a Tuesday night. And that my particular style of alloy wheels were later found to be offensive to badgers. And El Nino. Yes, ok....ok...ok! What ever you say! Just bloody take it away!!!....................Do you want me to fill the 'tank first?" Very Happy
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Well-weathered leather,
Hot metal and oil,
The scented country air.
Sunlight on chrome,
The blur of the landscape,
Every nerve aware!

FOR SALE!! - MY03 996.2, Seal Grey, graphite, M030, K&N, Design Tek CAI (Brrrrrrrrrrrr!!!).
 
  
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threespins
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 23 Mar 2013
Posts: 259



PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told by my bank the only safe way is an electronic transfer, which is what I did the last car I sold. You can contact your bank to make sure the money has been received, before you hand over keys etc.
 
  
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RichiRich
Suzuka


Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 1037
Location: Luxembourg


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, if you live in a village or small town, don't take pictures of your car near your home. I did that for an MGB I sold and a guy took the photo in the ad, saw my village name, and drove round until he saw my house Surprised. I had an unexpected knock at the door - he was a nice guy, but some are not!
_________________
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Speed Yellow / Black

Ex - 2003 996 Carrera 4S
Ex - 1992 964 Turbo X33 (#777)

Last edited by RichiRich on Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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athomp04
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 97



PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always asked for proof of cleared funds in a bank account by way of statement or pass book along with a utility bill, driving licence and passport before taking matters further as this will help flush out genuine buyers.

Ashley
 
  
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pix882
Newbie


Joined: 09 Jun 2016
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some great advice on this thread Thumb

With the new fast payment system (which has replaced BACs I think), payments are generally instant plus there is no way for the transfer to be recalled or cancelled, once it hits your account its not going anywhere.

When I sold my cayman a few years back, the guy came over, saw the car, we went out for a drive, he gave me a holding deposit and came back 2 days later. We went to a local bank branch, he did the transfer, by the time we got back to mine to complete the paperwork the money was already cleared in my account.
 
  
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