993 C2S - thoughts?

Counter Of Beans · 14 Feb 2020

I just don't get the "S" premium (says the man with a C2) - OK they are rare, but you can have a C2 with these miles for £55k. I just do not think the premium can be justified. And anyway, why is mileage such a big deal? These cars are 20+ years old, what's important is what jobs have been done on them, not how many miles they've clocked.

Example: a car with 70k miles will likely need a suspension refresh. I'm in the middle of sorting that for my car, and even if you can DIY you're looking at £3k plus to replace 20 year old components. Need to replace the evaporator? You probably will; that's typically £1500 minimum. Scuttle rust? Clutch change?

The point is, £90k for a car that may need another £10k spending on it is just insane. I don't care if it's an "S", it's overpriced.

Hell, my C2 is mint, literally needs nothing doing after its time with Precision Porsche. I'd sell it for £50k and you'd have a car that is 99% of that "S" for almost half the price.

cableguy · 14 Feb 2020

That's low mileage special edition Vesuvius money imo. At this money, most potential buyers would want originality and Hardbacks which would cost you circa £5k if you could find a set.

Be interesting to find out if screen scuttles, rear chassis legs and door check straps are good or have been sorted?

OP, have you driven any 993's recently. I've had a WB C2S and now a NB C2 and would take the NB car every time. Yes the WB cars have a wider rear and slightly more purposeful look but the NB cars feel much more nimble and light footed.

Look at as many as you can and weigh up future expenditure. A pricey dealer car can soon end up looking very expensive once some preventative maintenance and upgrades have been factored in.

C.

jonttt · 14 Feb 2020

You can only buy the widebody at the point of sale.......just sayin :grin:

It may be only be a few mmmmmm but boy do those hips look good :thumb:

I know I know, there is no logic too it ......but the fact is mileage and that widebody always has and always will command a premium......7 years ago it was £10k like for like.....now its more....go figure.......a widebody will always be a rare car amongst rare cars ......it will always dictate the market.......the old argument that a NB is the better drive is more diluted than ever, a Modern Ford Fiesta is a better drive......thats not what a993 is about nowadays....its about the emotion and the cosmetics and rarity are part of that ownership experience like it or not.........any watch tells the time, but if your into watches thats not what adds the value :thumb:

cableguy · 14 Feb 2020

jonttt said:
the old argument that a NB is the better drive is more diluted than ever, a Modern Ford Fiesta is a better drive......thats not what a993 is about nowadays...

Rubbish, it is exactly what a 993 is all about. When was the last time you got your 993 up to temp and then had a proper thrash round some flowing country roads... Back end sliding about with a little opposite lock followed by the classic slow in and fast out that only a 911 does best.
A Fiesta may soak up a pot hole with more aplomb but that's about it.

Other than a ridiculously low mileage 993 bought purely for investment purposes, there is only one reason to own such a car, to drive the t!ts off it.

C.

991.2GTS · 15 Feb 2020

jonttt said:
I Like it and lets be honest a wide body 993 WITHOUT the massive rear spoiler 'spoiling" the lines is a thing of real beauty :worship: .....

So lets look at what its got in its favour:

- Its a widebody NA 993
- its manual (most 2S are tip in the UK :hand: )
- it black on silver
- on the face of it it has been very well maintained (That dealer would not touch a dog)
- the mileage is perfect ie you can drive it and not affect value

What's it got against it:
- the interior is marmite but is easily fixed very cheaply ie only the centres need to be changed (I like it as it lightens the interior and you can get replacement centres, they just Velcro in you know :wink: )
- the wheels are marmite (again I like them, I think the car 'sits" perfectly on them) ...........but have good value so would likely cost you nothing to swap for original 2S (which where the cheaper solid spokes from the factory)
- it does not have hardbacks

Yes its top end but its a rare car and is one of the rare 2S that I would value like for like with a 4S........

Its a top car and if the maintenance record is as fastidious as I suspect it will be then...........did I mention it looks gorgeous.......and its rare :grin:

You make a very compelling case. Now I'm tempted again.... :chin:

If it was more original, I think I'd be making plans to go and see it. As it is, and at that price, I'm going to continue the search.

The plan wasn't to buy again until later in the year, but after seeing yours up close last week I'm having trouble controlling my impulses again. :grin:

elee · 15 Feb 2020

For me it was and is Purely looks. Mine could of had a 1300cc beetle engine in it . The NB just don't do it for me Regardless of mileage or condition. It was as simple as that for me .

Billy Bumpsteer · 15 Feb 2020

Its overpriced what ever way you look at it! The Kenny Dunn one looks good value next to that and to my eyes shows there is nothing better than the 18" Techno wheel. The seats centres are not held in with velcro they are a complete cover over the whole upper seat.

jonttt · 15 Feb 2020

Billy Bumpsteer said:
Its overpriced what ever way you look at it! The Kenny Dunn one looks good value next to that and to my eyes shows there is nothing better than the 18" Techno wheel. The seats centres are not held in with velcro they are a complete cover over the whole upper seat.

From memory, the backs of the comfort seats Velcro in ......the point is there is nothing on that car that cannot easily be reverted to stock ........and I like it how it is in any case.......the main thing is that its probably had all the jobs that need doing....done already......whoever had that car new what they where doing is my gut feel :thumb:......its a stunning car, whether it would be more stunning with stock wheels / leather is personal but either way its been setup stunning :worship: ........yes its top end but these cars are in a different market place now, you simply can;t get away from the looks and rarity, if it was a tip it would be worth a lot less and as most 2S are tip it slews peoples views of the market when you are not in the market. The 4S does not have the same perception issues as they only made them in manual :bandit:

There is no better looking Porsche IMHO......NA widebody 993 ......of course that is subjective.....but the thing a WB NA has in its favour is there are very few of them......

Art in motion :worship:

wilsonny · 15 Feb 2020

cableguy said:
jonttt said:

the old argument that a NB is the better drive is more diluted than ever, a Modern Ford Fiesta is a better drive......thats not what a993 is about nowadays...

Click to expand...

Rubbish, it is exactly what a 993 is all about. When was the last time you got your 993 up to temp and then had a proper thrash round some flowing country roads... Back end sliding about with a little opposite lock followed by the classic slow in and fast out that only a 911 does best.
A Fiesta may soak up a pot hole with more aplomb but that's about it.

Other than a ridiculously low mileage 993 bought purely for investment purposes, there is only one reason to own such a car, to drive the t!ts off it.

C.

totally agree.... driving something exciting is exactly what ive got mine for and throughout summer that's exactly what I do pretty much every weekend.

elee · 15 Feb 2020

Just getting in it and starting it up , smelling the leather, is just as good. I don't need to drive fast to enjoy it . What Enjoyment do people get with having a good painting on a wall ! But they do . As said it's nice driving fast down a country lane , but not why I brought a c4s . If I want to do that I have a Yamaha r1 . :thumb:

C4Silver · 15 Feb 2020

Ooooops !

jonttt · 15 Feb 2020

elee said:
Just getting in it and starting it up , smelling the leather, is just as good. I don't need to drive fast to enjoy it . What Enjoyment do people get with having a good painting on a wall ! But they do . As said it's nice driving fast down a country lane , but not why I brought a c4s . If I want to do that I have a Yamaha r1 . :thumb:

Agreed, its about the whole ownership experience, the smell, the sound, the feel, the looks, the rarity......everything you need to make up a classic car.....like it or lump it the fact is the gap between values of WB 993's and NB will only get wider (as its done for the past 8 years) ...........that does not mean the NB is not a greater classic in any way at all......they are just in a different market place to the wide bodies now and thats why I find it ironic when comparisons on value are made.........those wanting a WB.....want a WB for a reason .......yes it makes no sense but when did values ever make sense......you can drop c£90k on this car and maybe lose a little, likely not depending how long you keep it......or you could buy something else and lose a lot more......these cars are in a different marketplace that does not involve finance or logic......its more about the simple pleasure of owning such a classic and rare car.........I remember exactly the same conversations 4-5 years ago....difference begin we where talking about £70k cars at the top end and the 'gap" to NB being c£15k.......in 5 years time they will be at another level again IMHO.....rare just gets rarer :wink:

m119cars · 15 Feb 2020

.....you can drop c£90k on this car and maybe lose a little, likely not depending how long you keep it......

I'm not so sure about that, quite a few other S models have sold recently (911v and Ashgoods) which shows people are still in the market for these cars if price reflects condition, mileage, maintenance etc. It's reasonable to assume the buyers of the recently sold cars would have considered this car also. One could argue that the vendor has a reputation for selling quality vehicles so the reason it hasn't sold is predominantly price.

IMHO if you gave 90k for that now and your circumstances suddenly changed you'd struggle to get £80k back for it.

berni29 · 15 Feb 2020

Hi

For me not only is this particular car overpriced (you may not care about that) bit it really needs to be original and faultless. Garaged its whole life type of car. No rust on the chassis legs, heat shields or bumper stays. Not one that has just been well maintained.

For less money different story of course.

Berni

leonv · 15 Feb 2020

Some great advice on here - if you're looking for opinions just based on the price, advert and pictures it looks expensive. Paying top dollar for a car with modifications is all down to personal taste, the main thing is buying on condition - the devil (and true cost) is in the detail. If you'd prefer a 4S, one will come along with a bit of patience. Used to have a C4 and it was cracking, especially in the rain - good luck with your search and don't look back when you pull the trigger!

993 C2S - thoughts?

Counter Of Beans

Hockenheim

cableguy

Magny-Cours

jonttt

Monaco

cableguy

Magny-Cours

991.2GTS

Imola

elee

Sao Paulo

Billy Bumpsteer

Spa-Francorchamps

jonttt

Monaco

wilsonny

Spa-Francorchamps

elee

Sao Paulo

C4Silver

Sao Paulo

jonttt

Monaco

m119cars

Monza

berni29

Paul Ricard

leonv

New member

Similar threads

Latest posts

New Threads

Porsche Model Range

Porsche 911

Porsche Hypercars

Other Current Porsche Model

Porsche Legacy Models

Forum statistics