Future proofed 996 /how much & how long is a piece of st

I could not disagree more. It is a great car, but I do not think it is a better sports car than a 911 Anyway, each to his own.

He lives near Lotus. I think we both thought the Evora was pricey. Will take a look. Thanks..

(Previous comment was a disagreement on Cayman vs 911 )

He lives near Lotus. I think we both thought the Evora was pricey. Will take a look. Thanks..

(Previous comment was a disagreement on Cayman vs 911 )

nickyg63 said:

SausageCreature said:

Hi Nicky, I followed your path, 987.1 when it was a new thing, and just six months later moved to a 997 which I kept for nearly 8 years and only sold it via word of mouth (It was a remarkable example and is now even better under the new owner)/ I sold it simply due to not using it any more. I might well come back to the brand some day, but it will likely be for a gen 1.5 997 Turbo, and probably a cab because they are about as ostentatious as a 997 can get and I think I need that. That is my story...so, back to my friend...

.. for my friend. He is likely to opt for a DFI 987 Cayman (gen 2), they are around at the price point he is looking at. I know a very small few 9x7.2 engines have scored, but they do seem more resilient and the IMS should not be an issue...so all is good on the Cayman front. No advice needed.

Now, he has not mentioned a 996 at all. He is only talking about Caymans, and asking me about the issues that affect the 911s and whether they affect the cayman. Yes, of course they do, unless you go to the DFI gen 2. Im not aware of these DFI needing any preventative measures. So again...all good/no advice needed.

Anyway what i am trying to find out is here....I know he would also consider a nice 996, but ONLY if it has had the work done to address the potential issues and it is in his price bracket.

My questions about the 996 are specifically a car that has already been future proofed and had the work done....I.e. with the new cylinder liners and an IMS upgrade so that he has peace of mind - and my questions are - what would he likely be able to get for his budget that meets this two requirements which I know will be top of his list if he is going to get into a 996. I have mentioned IMS and liners (aka bore scoring), so with that in mind what other preventative work are you suggesting?

Cheers
M

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I am working my way down the typical issue associated with the 996, you have mentioned the biggies! The other is the ovality of the cylinders on high mile cars, but then the others are wear and tear.

Clutch
RMS
AOS
plugs & coils
Condensers
Water hoses
Brake lines
suspension arms
shocks
springs
engine mounts
exhaust parts are getting on for 20yrs and will possible need sorting, this may include the headers and bolts snapping

I am working my way through this list!! But apart from the big problems most of these are age related! Once sorted should last another 20yrs

Good luck

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Agree with this. The engine is just one element of the entire package that needs to be/needs to have been maintained.

In my search I came across a 996 4S with a rebuild that still would have needed another 8-10k spent on it.

I would add addressing corrosion on structural bodywork to that list. Things like sills, jacking points, etc. can start to rust and once the rots gets hold it's increasingly expensive to get right. So I'd add rust management/proofing as a must for future proofing.

Also, just because an ad says 'engine rebuilt' doesn't necessarily mean everything has been done. I came across a few cars where just half the liners were replaced (I know that one bank is more prone, but you'd kind of think that once you're in there...). In other cases I also saw very selective rebuilds that were a far cry from the 'full fat' all six cylinder and liner 12k job. Some shops will do one cylinder and a few other bits for a little over a grand.

SausageCreature said:

not worried about wear and tear stuff. I know what it takes to run a 911 and a 987, so thanks but honestly no need for it.

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Thanks - to say it again, really no need for this kind of info. I owned my 911 for 8 years.

Anyway, a 911 is now ruled out Cheers
Mark

SausageCreature said:

Anyway, a 911 is now ruled out Cheers
Mark

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Just to move the discussion on a wee bit, would you agree that a Cayman or a Boxster is 90% as good as as a 911 for two thirds of the price? OK those numbers are a bit random, but I have a couple of mates who tell me that "Caysters" are far better value for money - assuming of course that you don't need the rear seats. Thoughts?

Having had a 996.1 and a 987.2 I think it's best to think of the Boxster/cayman as a car in its own right, not a substitute 911. It's a phenomenal mid-engined package which out performs most 911s that will have gone before it, but apart from the badge, engine and some trim, it's not much like a 911 IMHO.

To the OP the most cost-effective way to mitigate the risks of a 996 is to buy a good 996.1 of the right spec. Read the IMS sticky thread at the top of this forum and go from there. On the 987.2 can you really get one for £15k? Only a high mileage 2.9 surely? (See 'not a 911" comment above).

I don't think you can really plan for this stuff, I went out to get a 996, I bought one with relatively low miles for a 20 year old car, superb history, perfect condition and aero kit (rarer than standard), I paid £20,990 from a well known specialist and a month down the line the IMS started to fail (caught in time).

I think the truth of the matter is, you need a budget for maintenance or repairs, and future proofing, with a £15k budget i'd be looking at 987.1 Boxsters and putting some money aside for rainy day.

I mean £15k will gladly get you into a 996, but if you've tossed the whole budget at the car and the engine lets go, that's an expensive paperweight.

If you want a car with a Hartech rebuilt engine you're probably looking over £22k in my opinion, if you can even find one..

Perhaps a RPM Technik CSR price would give you a better idea of what a thoroughly sorted and future proofed 996 costs, these are £44k!

Counter Of Beans said:

Just to move the discussion on a wee bit, would you agree that a Cayman or a Boxster is 90% as good as as a 911 for two thirds of the price? OK those numbers are a bit random, but I have a couple of mates who tell me that "Caysters" are far better value for money - assuming of course that you don't need the rear seats. Thoughts?

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Absolutely I would agree with that. However, the driving characteristics are very different. When I first got my 2008 Boxster S 3.4 - the biggest engine they ever put in a Boxster S, I was able to drive it fast very quickly - predictable, easy to handle and confidence inducing.

When I first got my 911 I was not able to use the car's full power. I took it to Bruntingthorpe and had an hour-shake down on the track and then went on tour with a load of guys from 911uk.com Jackal did the film production and you can see the story here (for those that haven't already seen this amazing film) It does do high res - clcik the settings button to adjust res:

https://vimeo.com/55093995

Now, on that tour, following the 997 GT3, The 993 Carrera RS (work in progress), the Turbo 996 and the Turbo S 997.2 I learned very quickly how to position the car into all manner of adverse hairpins, tight turns, high speed cornering and what the capability of the car is. I particularly thank Jackal in his 993 for a lot of what I learned because I followed him closely and learned how to corner the car right on the edge of it's power and handling capability, mile after mile for thousands of miles - and you can see this in the video (and the follow ups for the other tours). I did three tours with this crowd and as we got to know each other better, we got more trust in one another and the driving skills for us as a group were continually increasing. Applecross in Scotland was a fantastic drive, close convoy, amazing bends and scenery.

The Boxster and Cayman are great, but the 911 is better. It also has better materials certainly in the cabin. The 911 will chose it's friends more carefully than a Cayman, and those that get to know a 911 properly and how to handle it on it's edge will *mostly* agree. That said, I know of only a few people that can really use "all a 911 can give", and do it safely. So many people own them and never figure out what to do with them, some of those folks then claim not to like the 911 - truth is, they never really knew it.

Griffter said:

Having had a 996.1 and a 987.2 I think it's best to think of the Boxster/cayman as a car in its own right, not a substitute 911. It's a phenomenal mid-engined package which out performs most 911s that will have gone before it, but apart from the badge, engine and some trim, it's not much like a 911 IMHO.

To the OP the most cost-effective way to mitigate the risks of a 996 is to buy a good 996.1 of the right spec. Read the IMS sticky thread at the top of this forum and go from there. On the 987.2 can you really get one for £15k? Only a high mileage 2.9 surely? (See 'not a 911" comment above).

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Hi Griffter, having had a couple (987.1, 997.1, Cayman S 981 as a loan whilst OPC rebuilt my 997 engine) - the only 911 for me now is either a 993 or a 997.1.5 turbo. We shall see which way it goes. But, to be honest, I have a burning desire to own a Mezger engined 911).

I appreciate the help, but the car we are discussing here is for a friend, and I know he would not entertain a M95/M96/M97 engined car that had not had the IMS and cylinder liner upgrade. He just wont take the risk. At all.

...and nor would I ever advise him to. Not because I do not like them myself, but because I know what he is like and I know it would be the wrong choice for him. He is my oldest mate, and we always consult each other on cars, and he knows exactly what I went through with my 997. He doesn't want that in his life. So it is the wrong car. If he goes the Porsche route, it will likely be a Cayman Gen2 - and that is the right Porsche decision for him, unless he is going to up his budget and get into a 997.2 - which I know he wont.

Anyway - said it already. 911 is now outruled.

DarthFaker said:

I don't think you can really plan for this stuff, I went out to get a 996, I bought one with relatively low miles for a 20 year old car, superb history, perfect condition and aero kit (rarer than standard), I paid £20,990 from a well known specialist and a month down the line the IMS started to fail (caught in time).

I think the truth of the matter is, you need a budget for maintenance or repairs, and future proofing, with a £15k budget i'd be looking at 987.1 Boxsters and putting some money aside for rainy day.

I mean £15k will gladly get you into a 996, but if you've tossed the whole budget at the car and the engine lets go, that's an expensive paperweight.


Perhaps a RPM Technik CSR price would give you a better idea of what a thoroughly sorted and future proofed 996 costs, these are £44k!

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Yes I know. Did you read my posts? :?:

RPM CSR - no comment on that.

I share the view of your friend - I would not consider any 996 or 997.1 911 unless they'd had the full Hartech treatment, or of course GT and Turbo models with the Mezger engine. Some will say that that's much too risk averse or that I'm plain wrong. Fair enough. But your friend's viewpoint is not unique.

Counter Of Beans said:

I share the view of your friend - I would not consider any 996 or 997.1 911 unless they'd had the full Hartech treatment, or of course GT and Turbo models with the Mezger engine. Some will say that that's much too risk averse or that I'm plain wrong. Fair enough. But your friend's viewpoint is not unique.

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Not too risk averse, just a legendary engine, and having driven a few cars with those engines, I need that in my life at some point.

The 997 Gen 1.5 turbo is perfect for me, it has a 997.2 interior (inc PCM) and 997.2 front, 997.1 rear (My favourite) and the mezger engine...the 997.2 turbo comes with a the newer DFI engine (not mezger). It might be a better engine in the gen 2 turbo, but for me it has to be the mezger.

SausageCreature said:

I could not disagree more. It is a great car, but I do not think it is a better sports car than a 911 Anyway, each to his own.

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Your loss, mate.

I owned 3 911s before going to the Evora and it's way better.

But don't take my word for it, Read this and note the sub-heading:

https://www.evo.co.uk/lotus/evora/14270/lotus-evora

'Suddenly the Cayman feels rather blunt' evo 132

It beat them all, including the 997 GT3, Noble M600 and Lamborghini Murcielago SV.

https://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/244843/evo_car_of_the_year_2009.html

So yes, it is a better sports car. You just have to open your mind and try one to discover just how brilliant it is.

Oh and the Evora uses an indestructible Toyota V6, which sounds great.