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Suspension query.
- Thread starter Stoddy
- Start date
Firstly, I must apologise for asking you to hit your car with a hammer albeit carefully. It was getting late.
Thanks for the photos. I've zoomed into 2 of them, nearside and the one offside and joined them together.
I can clearly see the large domed washer, No 6 in the parts diagram.
I've highlighted part of its edge in yellow.
Both top mounts look about equally "weathered" to me and look like they're probably the originals fitted to the car. The tops are also similarly "weathered" from your earlier photos.
I think the lip of the washer is about level with the top coil of the spring on the nearside.
The offside looks subtly different although the angle of the photos is not quite the same. It looks like the lip is close to the 2nd coil.
I think this may explain why the threaded end of your nearside damper rod has apparently moved upwards by a few millimetres. I don't think it will move up any further because the large domed washer underneath is limiting the movement.
As DeMort says, difficult to tell without seeing the car or in my case, without taking it apart to have a look.
Thanks for the photos. I've zoomed into 2 of them, nearside and the one offside and joined them together.
I can clearly see the large domed washer, No 6 in the parts diagram.
I've highlighted part of its edge in yellow.
Both top mounts look about equally "weathered" to me and look like they're probably the originals fitted to the car. The tops are also similarly "weathered" from your earlier photos.
I think the lip of the washer is about level with the top coil of the spring on the nearside.
The offside looks subtly different although the angle of the photos is not quite the same. It looks like the lip is close to the 2nd coil.
I think this may explain why the threaded end of your nearside damper rod has apparently moved upwards by a few millimetres. I don't think it will move up any further because the large domed washer underneath is limiting the movement.
As DeMort says, difficult to tell without seeing the car or in my case, without taking it apart to have a look.
Attachments
The following is a photo of my Top Mount. I took a couple of shots this morning and this is the best I got.
Taken with a cheap endoscope attached to the smartphone, so that's how I got inside the coil spring.
I've marked the relevant bits with colour :
Yellow is the domed washer (No.6)
Cyan is the part of the top mount bolted to the body (No.3)
Green is the Inner Sleeve of the top mount (No.3)
Red is the top coil of the spring.
The gap between Cyan and Green is where I believe the rubber bearing is situated.
The only way I can see your Damper Rod and the upper domed washer moving upwards is if the yellow marked washer is resting on the cyan part of the top mount.
I believe these two domed washers (No.6) are a safety feature to prevent the damper rod coming out of the Top Mount in the event the rubber bearing failing.
Top mount failure is not unknown, even on a Porsche.
I've also drawn a schematic of what I believe has happened, colour coded the same as the photo above.
This is only a schematic and may not be 100% accurate.
Searching on the web for other images, I found this for a 996, so not necessarily absolutely identical to a 997.
https://www.renntech.org/topic/40035-carrera-4-suspension-top-mounts/
Whilst these parts do not "move" whilst driving, every bump, pothole or sunken drain cover will have the force of the damper transferred into the rubber bearing in the top mount.
Finally, if it were mine, I would take the car to my local Porsche Independent Specialist (someone like DeMort) to let them inspect it.
All of this is my take on your photos and of course, I could be totally wrong.
Hoping all goes well with this and do let us know the outcome.
Best Regards........Stewart
Taken with a cheap endoscope attached to the smartphone, so that's how I got inside the coil spring.
I've marked the relevant bits with colour :
Yellow is the domed washer (No.6)
Cyan is the part of the top mount bolted to the body (No.3)
Green is the Inner Sleeve of the top mount (No.3)
Red is the top coil of the spring.
The gap between Cyan and Green is where I believe the rubber bearing is situated.
The only way I can see your Damper Rod and the upper domed washer moving upwards is if the yellow marked washer is resting on the cyan part of the top mount.
I believe these two domed washers (No.6) are a safety feature to prevent the damper rod coming out of the Top Mount in the event the rubber bearing failing.
Top mount failure is not unknown, even on a Porsche.
I've also drawn a schematic of what I believe has happened, colour coded the same as the photo above.
This is only a schematic and may not be 100% accurate.
Searching on the web for other images, I found this for a 996, so not necessarily absolutely identical to a 997.
https://www.renntech.org/topic/40035-carrera-4-suspension-top-mounts/
Whilst these parts do not "move" whilst driving, every bump, pothole or sunken drain cover will have the force of the damper transferred into the rubber bearing in the top mount.
Finally, if it were mine, I would take the car to my local Porsche Independent Specialist (someone like DeMort) to let them inspect it.
All of this is my take on your photos and of course, I could be totally wrong.
Hoping all goes well with this and do let us know the outcome.
Best Regards........Stewart
P9XX :worship:
Very impressive and an outstanding effort to come to a solution ..
The washers no.6 are the failsafe to stop a separated top mount bush from having the shock either enter the bonnet or come out the base when airborne shall we say
I had a close look at the comparison pictures and it does seem that one base washer is higher than the other side , clever call to put them side to side.
Couple of points i don't get though .. i've never seen a separated top mount to this degree .. there are no knocking noises which i would fully expect ..
Finally .. how can the road height measurements be the same each side when if this has failed one side will be lower than the other ..
Bemused by the above but fully with P9XX here .. top strut mount failure .
Logically if you jack it up the shock should move downwards.
Very impressive and an outstanding effort to come to a solution ..
The washers no.6 are the failsafe to stop a separated top mount bush from having the shock either enter the bonnet or come out the base when airborne shall we say
I had a close look at the comparison pictures and it does seem that one base washer is higher than the other side , clever call to put them side to side.
Couple of points i don't get though .. i've never seen a separated top mount to this degree .. there are no knocking noises which i would fully expect ..
Finally .. how can the road height measurements be the same each side when if this has failed one side will be lower than the other ..
Bemused by the above but fully with P9XX here .. top strut mount failure .
Logically if you jack it up the shock should move downwards.
Sirs, you are legendary. I'll take the car in tomorrow for a first hand look by an indie (if they're open) but I really appreciate your attention to detail, it's heartwarming being part of this forum, I feel like I'm in safe hands and we've never even met! .........yet.
Thank you so much.
I'll of course keep you updated with any developments. :worship: :worship:
Stoddy. :thumbs: :thumbs:
Meanwhile, the picture shows a hopeful cure in process of a very leaky drivers door.
Thank you so much.
I'll of course keep you updated with any developments. :worship: :worship:
Stoddy. :thumbs: :thumbs:
Meanwhile, the picture shows a hopeful cure in process of a very leaky drivers door.
Attachments
So here's what CG found straight away, (obviously with the advantage of seeing it first hand)
Bent top mount due to excessive upward force, ie, probably a sizeable pot hole!
Quite a few other things underneath are to be replaced too, including some freshly skimmed discs which to me just looked like new ones, and not the 'below Porsche's minimum thickness required" So thanks to the garage (non Porsche) which I bought him from. :nooo:
I'll update when THE DUKE is finished at CG.
What a nice couple of blokes they are too!
Stoddy :thumbs:
Bent top mount due to excessive upward force, ie, probably a sizeable pot hole!
Quite a few other things underneath are to be replaced too, including some freshly skimmed discs which to me just looked like new ones, and not the 'below Porsche's minimum thickness required" So thanks to the garage (non Porsche) which I bought him from. :nooo:
I'll update when THE DUKE is finished at CG.
What a nice couple of blokes they are too!
Stoddy :thumbs:
Attachments
It's great isn't it ? All about communication and sharing. :thumbs:
Turns out, the spring on that side was replaced, so yeah, must've been a bang!
Can't wait to get him back and see how he handles now!
Watch this space.
Cheers all. :worship: :thumbs:
Stoddy.
Turns out, the spring on that side was replaced, so yeah, must've been a bang!
Can't wait to get him back and see how he handles now!
Watch this space.
Cheers all. :worship: :thumbs:
Stoddy.
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