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Turrbo
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Joined: 02 Jan 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:06 pm    Post subject: Correction- 911 Turbo Reply with quote

Correction - After studying an invoice dated 09/06/2010 it is clear to see that the W.I.P. No. 52494 within the invoice is identical to the mileage quoted....this is now very much looking like a data input error.

At £55k this 1 Previous owner car in such a sought after spec could potentially be a real find.

Last edited by Turrbo on Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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easternjets
Watkins Glen


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These cars are so easy to 'clock' that it's almost laughable. A visit to an OPC or good Indy will tell if it has been adjusted and if it has then it's worth buttons unless it's rectified back to it's correct mileage. I know this because it happened to me, mind you with the data coming back from .Gov then anyone looking at it will run a mile anyway and that data can't be rectified.
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Hamster75
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 374
Location: Chester


PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does seem to happen, the company I work for sold a BMW 3 series two & half years old with 66k miles traded in for an new Audi.
The Audi dealer then moved the BMW on to others like they do with trade ins no fault on the Audi dealer.

A few years later trading standards asked us if we had any history on the car as we were registered 1st keepers. I keep all the service records & gave them the info we had on the car, by then nearly six years old had first mot at 31k & wasn't even up to the mileage we sold it at 3 years earlier.

The owner had had an serious mech issue & took the car into BMW dealer to fix, they flagged up the discrepancies, they had access to the service times etc all altered before 1st MOT, the car was close to 100k actual miles Evil or Very Mad
was done by a used car dealer in Yorkshire.

We have also had this with hi mileage company vans as well, I would say there's a lot more to gain on a 911
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Albionmuz
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
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Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hamster75 wrote:
It does seem to happen, the company I work for sold a BMW 3 series two & half years old with 66k miles traded in for an new Audi.
The Audi dealer then moved the BMW on to others like they do with trade ins no fault on the Audi dealer.

A few years later trading standards asked us if we had any history on the car as we were registered 1st keepers. I keep all the service records & gave them the info we had on the car, by then nearly six years old had first mot at 31k & wasn't even up to the mileage we sold it at 3 years earlier.

The owner had had an serious mech issue & took the car into BMW dealer to fix, they flagged up the discrepancies, they had access to the service times etc all altered before 1st MOT, the car was close to 100k actual miles Evil or Very Mad
was done by a used car dealer in Yorkshire.

We have also had this with hi mileage company vans as well, I would say there's a lot more to gain on a 911


It’s amazing how many 993s advertised have sub 100k mileages. For a drive everyday supercar that are all over 20 years old now it does seem a bit convenient so many haven’t reached the “worthless” 100k
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911UK
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1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning - 911 Turbo currently on sale, inspect thoroughl Reply with quote

Turrbo wrote:
Hi,

Just a word of warning, a friend of mine ventured into Wales with the intention of purchasing a 997 Turbo in the following spec: Manual, Ceramics, Sports Ch and finished in Basalt Black.

After looking through a few invoices it became apparent that the car was recorded by Porsche in Solihull to have covered more than 51k miles. A further issue was then discovered when studying previous MOT’s.....in May 2015 the mileage on the car was recorded to be unreadable (Gov website) and on another search engine the mileage is recorded to be “0” as in zero.

As the car is currently on sale with a total of 34k miles I would either suggest that it may have been “clocked” or the garage in question (Porsche Main Dealer in Solihull) have made an error in 2010 and again in 2015.

The car is currently on offer on a popular auction site and with Supercar Rooms in Worcester.

Draw your own conclusion, what a shame for this to happen in this day and age. This poor car’s value completely brought into question by simple upload errors.....or are they?


unless you post details of the car's reg, an actual link to the auction site or the dealer website ad link for the actual car for sale, your post provides no insight as it could be one of any number of cars....
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alpinaman
Montreal


Joined: 21 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only a blue one on the site now
 
  
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Turrbo
Newbie


Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebay item number : 133285538014
 
  
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Turrbo
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Joined: 02 Jan 2020
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VA 07 DFF
 
  
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Gray79
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Apr 2019
Posts: 130
Location: Scarborough


PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:17 pm    Post subject: C Reply with quote

I wouldn’t read too much into the one on the Gov website, I have had quite a few cars with strange things on there, some whilst being in my ownership, and others whilst people I have known owned cars. Simple human error whilst inputting a lot of data. But the Porsche Solihull one is more of a worry, I would check through the rest of the cars history very carefully to look for any other anomaly’s and look at the general wear and tear on the car.
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darkhorse
Monza


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 199
Location: under the car


PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One previous owner, MOTs always carried out on the same date each year for all recorded entries. One invalid entry on .gov but as mentioned above, I have had one on a legit car where the garage in question assured me they added the mileage correctly.
Strange from the OPC, but I have never dealt with that one, doesnt mean they couldnt make a mistake though.

It could either be a dodgy car or a bargain for a manual with that mileage and PCCB!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-3-6-997-Turbo-2007-rare-manual/133285538014
 
  
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C4Silver
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 278



PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve had a car for the past 17 years and in that time it’s covered 7,500 miles.

It has just under 34,000 miles on the clock and the MOT history shows 3 in accuracies, one reads 116,000 in 2012, another reads 57,000 and another reads 24,000 when the miles were reading 34,000

I’ve put it down to tester and his mate confusing paperwork with others being tested, reading the wrong numbers or writing the wrong numbers, then the Gov staff have had their share of the blame, it doesn’t bother me at the minute but rest assured when I advertise it for sale it will create a melt down when I decide to sell and no doubt some one scrutinising their purchase will flag up the same, how can you legislate for what is basically human error ?
 
  
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NLW73
Albert Park


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1579
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way to really tell is to read the cars number of ignitions and the time in use. Apparently no one can change this not even Porsche and if someone tries to clock the car it won’t correlate with that ratio

If you correlate this against the mileage there is a ratio you can use to see if it’s way out. A specialist will know

Mezger engines do put out a lot of readings so that a good thing when plugged into a good machine to do rev range change and the above
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Magic919
Barcelona


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’ll get hours of use, not ignitions. Then calculate average speed from that. You need to decide if that sounds plausible.
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7692
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ill just point out my own view on clocked cars ...

It's all software so gone are the days when you could see the numbers on the speedo not lining up properly .

You can see fault codes that often have a mileage listed in various control units if your lucky .. but these are not always accurate ..

You can see in the airbag the operating hours which you can compare to the dme hours .. again it's not conclusive .. they can and often are wrong on cars which have not been clocked .

If i was going to alter the software for the mileage then i would also alter the software for the operating hours .. i would check each control unit and set them to what i wanted .. its software after all and anything can be changed .

I'm not aware of a hard set component in any car that can't be reset .

Due diligence applys .. how worn are the carpets .. the seats .. the steering wheel etc etc .. service history , mot history but bear in mind this is prone to mistakes .. not common but it does happen .

To say a car is clocked is a difficult thing to prove .. a sloppy clock and yup .. a professional one .. hmm i'm not sure it would be that easy .. again back to due diligence .

there are a few places we can look software wise to give a possible answer .. obviously i cant go into detail other than to say .. its not that easy to actually prove it on face value .

Just my 2 pennys anyways which i'm sure someone will have an answer to .. i watch with interest though as i like to learn .
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6855
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owner not replied yet Dont know

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jimmy p
Montreal


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 525
Location: Notts / Derbys


PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the mot history it look a really well kept car. Mileage always looks consistent. Just an error on mileage input stage I would suggest. I've seen this on numerous cars over the years.
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HSC911
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Warning - 911 Turbo currently on sale, inspect thoroughl Reply with quote

Turrbo wrote:
After looking through a few invoices it became apparent that the car was recorded by Porsche in Solihull to have covered more than 51k miles..........................................................................................................................A further issue was then discovered when studying previous MOT’s.....in May 2015 the mileage on the car was recorded to be unreadable (Gov website) and on another search engine the mileage is recorded to be “0” as in zero.

As the car is currently on sale with a total of 34k miles....?


I think the issue is with the 51k invoice rather than the MOT balls up Confused

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