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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Hesitation / judder... Reply with quote

Evening all
I pulled the car out of the garage this morning and within 200metres realised I had an issue.
There car has developed a hesitation/ resitantance under acceleration and a slight judder. It's all pretty modest but it's definitely there.
The engine management light came on for a short time and then went off again.
First thoughts are a misfire and therefore spark plugs and coil packs.
Any other thoughts?

Also - I know there are a couple of different diagnostic tools - any good or bad experiences to share? Happy to spend a bit more to get something that will do everything I might need over time?

Thanks in advance
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997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7823
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go with a coil or possibly the high lift solenoid on one bank being the fault .. if coil then i'll guess no.1 .

Fault code readout will say what the issue is .

The best tester is obviously a Piwis clone but they aint cheap .. durametric is a pretty good all rounder and a lot cheaper .
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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
I'll go with a coil or possibly the high lift solenoid on one bank being the fault .. if coil then i'll guess no.1 .

Fault code readout will say what the issue is .

The best tester is obviously a Piwis clone but they aint cheap .. durametric is a pretty good all rounder and a lot cheaper .


Thanks. Any recommendations on a tester?
Much appreciated.
_________________
997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
Ex Porsche Boxster 986
Ex Mazda MX5 mk1
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7823
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above .. piwis or durametric pro Smile

There are cheaper but i have no knowledge of them im afraid .
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like this?
Anyone have any experience of this unit?

http://www.diagnostic-world.com/pages/list_of_all_auto_diagnostic_tools_273181-z=960090&p=131264.cfm#content_item_131264
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997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7823
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.gendan.co.uk/porsche.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj42en4bF5gIVhbTtCh0QeAm2EAAYASAAEgL2cfD_BwE


http://www.durametric.com/
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



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timbo1811
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 136
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+ one on coil packs, Just had the same symptoms which turned out to be coil packs.
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NickHappy
Nürburgring


Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 495
Location: W.Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this only happen when cold or at all temperatures?
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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickHappy wrote:
Does this only happen when cold or at all temperatures?


Not sure I drive the car far enough to tell tbh.
I turned aoeund after a few miles and headed home - it was still doing it when I got home though.
Different thoughts?
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997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
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NickHappy
Nürburgring


Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 495
Location: W.Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many things hesitation could be from experience, at what temp. (If any) may help narrow it down.

Keep us posted on how you get on 👍🏻
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antonio
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 353


2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is exactly what happened to me, CEL was flashing then car ran really rough, code reader came up with misfire on Cylinder one, i used the Foxwell NT520.
 
  
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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update.

I remembered that I bought one of the cheap as chips Bluetooth obd readers a while ago. I downloaded an app on the phone called car scanner.
Go to everything connected and read the fault log... misfire on cylinder 2.
I have ordered all new plugs and coils so will have a go at doing the lot over Xmas.
Had a quick look on YouTube - looks a bit fiddly but still diy'able.
Anyone disagree or any hints? Looks like taking the exhaust silencer off makes the job quite a bit simpler.
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997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
Ex Porsche Boxster 986
Ex Mazda MX5 mk1
Plus some other stuff that wasn't very interesting....
 
  
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timbo1811
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 136
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new coil packs are slightly bigger than the originals which make it a bit more awkward, they come with new bolts. 3/8 socket set may be useful. The job can be done without removing the exhaust, but I guess it depends on what facilities you have. Sometimes the plug socket stays on the plug when you remove it, some duct tape sorts this.
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montygraphics
Newbie


Joined: 03 Nov 2018
Posts: 28



PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience a single misfire on diagnostics is usually a coilpack - a whole bank of 3 is usually a soleniod.
 
  
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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update. I have spent most of today tackling this job.
The plugs and coil packs are very fiddly but it is diyable. That said, I might think twice before taking this on again.
I did remove the exhaust silencer to get some space - albeit the exhaust hanger bracket is still right in the way!

I supplied my Indy with new coil packs when I brought the car in 2013 which he fitted. I was quite disappointed that #2 had failed. Imagine my surprise when I pulled #2 out and it has an original part number on it and is very obviously different to the other five! Hard not to conclude that I have been short changed!! (He has since retired so no comeback).

2 problems have arisen:
When I tried to remove the bumper retaining bracket the 10mm bolt which goes up into the chassis snapped off leaving the stud stuck in the thread.
I then decided to try and drill it out and in order to make some space I tried to remove an earth strap which mounts next to it. The nut snapped off freeing the earth strap but also leaving me no way of attaching it. This was all on the offside which surprised me - the near side I didn't have any issues with removing fittings.

I quickly gave on drillling out the other stud also so I am left with two problems.

I guess the 10mm can be drilled out and retapped by someone that knows what they are doing?
Can the earth strap be mounted to anywhere on the chassis or will that also need some specialist attention?

Thanks!
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997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
Ex Porsche Boxster 986
Ex Mazda MX5 mk1
Plus some other stuff that wasn't very interesting....
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7823
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not sounding too good Sad

Can you get a photo of the snapped earth strap if possible .

Im guessing its the large earth strap o/s/r .. this is the main engine earth so not only do i think the car will not start i dont think its a good idea to attempt starting it either .

You can't really drill and fix this lead as its a box chassis section it fits to , it needs a stud welded on really .

I think it needs to goto a garage .. that will require being recovered or using a jump lead inside the engine bay to give it a temp earth .. a little risky i feel .

the above is assuming the snapped lead is the engine earth strap though .. hence a picture if possible .
_________________
.
My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

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Indy Mechanic .
 
  
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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear... thanks for the reply. I will try and post a photo later.
_________________
997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
Ex Porsche Boxster 986
Ex Mazda MX5 mk1
Plus some other stuff that wasn't very interesting....
 
  
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rob_p
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 1012
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks DeMort,
Photos below, one showing the sheared stud (there might be enough left to get some kind of nut extender onto it?) - is it M8?,
and one showing the strap hanging down.

Also note the bumper bracket bolt next to it where it has also sheared (obviously less urgent than the earth strap....)

Any advice welcome!

thanks
_________________
997.1 C2 (full Hartech rebuild, Ohlins coilovers, ducktail, plus some other bits)
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2
Ex 991.1 C2
Ex Audi A8 V8 4.2tdi (best all round car I will ever own?)
Ex Porsche Boxster 986
Ex Mazda MX5 mk1
Plus some other stuff that wasn't very interesting....
 



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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7823
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see what you mean by bumper bracket now .. you can drill a hole and use a self cutting bolt / screw to reattach that .. it's no problem if left off for now .

As it stands and after thinking about it your car won't start .. i remember leaving off an earth lead on an engine drop in the past .. it wont start .

Fixes .. a welded stud is best .. body shops have this sort of equipment but that doesn't really help you atm ..

My suggestion if you want to try it ..

You use the kit in the link below ..

You basically drill a hole , insert the collapsable threaded rivet nut and use the tool to compress it .. you then have something to put a bolt into for the earth lead .

Access is the only problem with the tool .. it will stick out at a right angle from the chassis .. if you have the clearance then this is the best diy i can think of .


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blind-THREADED-NUT-RIVET-INSERT-TOOL-GUN-RIV-NUT-RIVET-M3-M4-M5-M8-RIVETER-Set/132927926036?hash=item1ef31f2f14:g:g7YAAOSwUMBcSJGb

Btw .. im happy to chat on the phone should you wish to , just say and ill PM you my number .
_________________
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target .

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

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Indy Mechanic .
 
  
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P9XX
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2018
Posts: 35
Location: Hertfordshire


PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob_p. I think you've already thought of this idea.
As a temporary or even permanent fix for the earth strap stud, you seem to have about 4 to 6 threads showing. If so, I would try a stainless rod coupler nut with Loctite onto the cleaned threads. Check electrical continuity from the coupler to the chassis. Then a short, M8 X 12 say, bolt to re-attach the earth strap.
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