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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7634
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Difference between standard and x51 oil sump Reply with quote

I knew that there was a difference, but I'd never really had a good look at them side-by-side to what it actually is, and how these differences will affect performance. Until now.

Standard sump on the left, x51 on the right. Nothig the different material used an the shapes of the baffles.



At the front of the engine, the x51 is sealed against the crank case with rubber flaps, whilst the standard supm relies on a small riser in the centre of the sump to reduce the space for oil to flow through from one side to the other.





When fitted in an engine block you can see the gaps here.





With the baffles removed from the sump it is easy to see how effective the x51 sealing is. It does a much better job of creating three partitions in the sump. The centre section where the oil from the block mostly returns to, and a pair of side sections where the head scavenges return to.







On the standard sump it is relatively easy for oil to move from one side to the other, with the x51 baffles the oil is much more likely to end up in the centre section. The centre section is also larger capacity.

MC
 
  
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maldren
Barcelona


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1251



PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting how 'home made' the X51 sump looks compared with the production item which show cost control with pressed metal and spot welds and rivets(?)
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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DynoMike
Albert Park


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1589
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maldren wrote:
Interesting how 'home made' the X51 sump looks compared with the production item which show cost control with pressed metal and spot welds and rivets(?)



My thoughts exactly, Mike.
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2003 996 Turbo
Previous toy 1974 Mini 1000
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7634
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is clearly not mass produced by any means. No welding, just rivets, bent bits of aluminium, and nuts and bolts. A very nice design though IMO and a very clear advantage over the standard item. More details in the video here:


Open Youtube Page


MC
 
  
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Glasgow 911SC
Trainee


Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 53
Location: Glasgow


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are either (or both - my assumption) what Porsche referred to as their "integrated dry sump"?
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7634
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glasgow 911SC wrote:
Are either (or both - my assumption) what Porsche referred to as their "integrated dry sump"?


Yes. A dry sump is where you use scavenge pumps to remove oil to a tank, then pick up the oil from there to feed to the engine. These engines use a pair of scavenge pumps in the heads to return oil to the sump. The differences to a proper dry sump are that the block itself isn't scavenged, so doesn't run signuficantly below atmospheric pressure, and due to the shape of the sump it is not the tall and narrow shape which would be ideal for an oil tank. The integrated dry sump is a good bit of marketting speak IMO. When running a flat engine you will need to scavenge the heads somehow.

MC
 
  
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DarthFaker
Trainee


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 93
Location: 1999 Carrera 4 Aerokit


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
Yes it is clearly not mass produced by any means. No welding, just rivets, bent bits of aluminium, and nuts and bolts. A very nice design though IMO and a very clear advantage over the standard item. More details in the video here:

MC


Well it originally designed a a possibility instead of the Mezger engine the X51, it was the backup engine which may have been used in some race series but never did. So the kind of nut and bolt construction makes sense, motorsport has never cared for making it pretty.
 
  
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coullstar
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1734
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are these still available from main dealer?
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7634
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coullstar wrote:
Are these still available from main dealer?


Yes they are. 99610724341 A couple of hundred £. Aftermarket baffle kits are available for a bit less, which are basically just a copy of this.

MC
 
  
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jerzybondov
Monza


Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 167



PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How different is the sump in the 3.6 X51? Am I correct in thinking the two X51 conversions (3.4 vs 3.6) were quite different?
 
  
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Dammit
Magny-Cours


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2693



PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3.4 and 3.6 sumps are identical, but there are other differences- a lot of the stock stuff that was changed on the 3.4 was retained on the 3.6.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8665
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I compared the two a few years ago and was going to copy the design for my own sump but never got around to it. It looked a very easy job to replicate with some ally sheet and tin snips.
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