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B16DSS
Newbie


Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 21


2002 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: Another "new joiner" to the Hartech Rebuild club Reply with quote

I don't post very often here but "lurk" regularly as a good source of info. So in mid July this year my 2002 996 Targa blew up after a fairly leisurely 20 mile round trip to take my daughter to swimming on a Sunday evening. I was fortunate as the engine let go as I exited a busy dual carriageway & I managed to pull over safely into a lay by just off the slip road. RAC recovered me to home & a few days later an ex OPC tech mate came to see my car....plugged in his diagnostic laptop
- he knows the car which has had much preventative medicine in my 8 yrs of ownership incl change IMS low temp thermostat. His initial opinion was...could be a valve seat "let go".
Anyway, long story short decided to take the plunge & sent the car to Bolton. Hartech confirmed issue was indeed a valve seat gone on cyl 3. Car is on 93 k miles, FSH OPC & specialist.
After a tortuous few days considering my options I elected to do a proper rebuild with all 6 cylinders re lined & replacement pistons & new IMS & numerous other worn parts sorted. Collected the car yesterday...so despite now being skint I'm happy. I love my car & it's a keeper. The "man maths" works out that when I plan to retire in 3 yrs time I no longer need or want to buy a newer 911.....anyway that's it. Couldn't fault the guys in Bolton. Top engineers & the quick guided tour of their facility was a real insight into these engine issues.

Last edited by B16DSS on Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 475
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad luck, but then eight years and many more to go, it'll work out a lot cheaper than a lot of folks spend to finance their boggo SUV. Plus you get to drive around in a Porsche with, to all intents a new engine. Sensible economics and environmentally sound decision making Thumb

Enjoy
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1998 C2 Manual + The Full Hartech.
 
  
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B16DSS
Newbie


Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 21


2002 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamesx19 wrote:
Bad luck, but then eight years and many more to go, it'll work out a lot cheaper than a lot of folks spend to finance their boggo SUV. Plus you get to drive around in a Porsche with, to all intents a new engine. Sensible economics and environmentally sound decision making Thumb

Enjoy


Cheers....& yes unlucky as valve seats going is still a fairly rare occurrence apparently. Anyway, time to enjoy enjoy 2k running in period. They've told me to drive it as it was meant to be driven during running in!
 
  
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3799
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about your troubles mate. Sounds unlucky. Out if curiosity, what were the cylinders like? I'm assuming all normal.
At least now you'll have a belter of an engine moving forward
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997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
 
  
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2626



PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad luck OP, but like you say, you love the car and are more than happy to keep it.
It should outlive you now. Thumb
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7232
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the valve seat issue sorted as part of the rebuild? I got the impression from member Ghianightmare's experience (needing a second Hartech rebuild after a valve seat dropped) that they are difficult to change.
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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Ghianightmare
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 356
Location: Dublin


PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the club B16! It is a nice club. You get to drive a really nice car and eat spaghetti hoops on toast a lot... mind you, my weight hasn't dropped so I'm clearly not starving! Out of interest, how were your cylinders? Mine were free of any signs of borescore. Best of luck with it.

@Robertb - Hartech haven't found anyone that will replace valve seats and warranty the work. There isn't much surplus metal around the factory seats and the spark plug hole is in the middle.

Mine had one seat replaced in cylinder 3 previous to me buying the car which was still in place when cylinder 2 dropped one, but i have no idea what process was used and whether the replacement was oversized. That head is on the scrap heap now.
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2002 Seal Grey C4S
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7232
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghianightmare wrote:
Welcome to the club B16! It is a nice club. You get to drive a really nice car and eat spaghetti hoops on toast a lot...


Mmmm spaghetti hoops.... Sounds like a win-win!

It would be interesting to know what Hartech do to the heads, if anything.
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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UncleP
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 132



PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it makes you feel any better, I've lost AT LEAST £20,000 in depreciation on 3 "daily driver" over the last 6 years.

I'm sure it's probably a bit more.
 
  
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B16DSS
Newbie


Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 21


2002 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently 2 main plausible hypotheses for why valve seats let go.
1. Manufactuers defect.
2. Overheating & loosening over time.
In my case over & above cyl 3 & head which was badly damaged, 3 of my other cyls had signs of deterioration, & 4 pistons also had poor skirt coating. So I considered & rejected the minimal fix & decided to rebuild all 6. Convinced this was the right call for not that much more money. Hopefully many years & miles of trouble free (engine at least) 996 use ahead.
 
  
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3799
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleP wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, I've lost AT LEAST £20,000 in depreciation on 3 "daily driver" over the last 6 years.

I'm sure it's probably a bit more.

There in lies the calibration for my man maths abacus. Thumb
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997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
 
  
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 7232
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely made sense to get the works done while its apart.

Think of it as "M96... Re-Imagined by Hartech, handbuilt by a specialist engineer using only the finest, exhaustively tested replacement components..."

Sounds much more exciting!
_________________
"911- the guilt-free supercar"

Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black

Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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MrC986
Newbie


Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 40
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve known the OP since before he bought his car & when his engine “clattered” as he described its failure when speaking to me, I was one of a number of 911 owners who were surprised given it’s service history/preventative maintenance undertaken during its current ownership. The valve seat failure is accepted as a rare cause of failure on 996s though is apparently almost untraceable as has been previously discussed - it’s what else is found when the engine is cracked open for a full investigation that can be slightly alarming.

In reality, when the engines break, they are likely in many instances to represent a cost proportional to the original new price of the cars & I’m sure many forum members appreciate this. As was mentioned when it was collected from Hartech, 996s are invariably driven much more than their equivalent peers I.e. 355s & Maseratis etc & in global terms the failures are probably still a small percentage although at least the OP has driven his car regularly during his ownership.
 
  
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Ghianightmare
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 356
Location: Dublin


PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
Ghianightmare wrote:
Welcome to the club B16! It is a nice club. You get to drive a really nice car and eat spaghetti hoops on toast a lot...


Mmmm spaghetti hoops.... Sounds like a win-win!

It would be interesting to know what Hartech do to the heads, if anything.


Hartech don't repair them as they cant find anyone to do it that will warranty it. They wont re install a head with a dropped valve seat as if it drops another one - like mine did - it needs a full rebuild.
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