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Suspension. Comparing damper options
- Thread starter maldren
- Start date
peterg1955
Monza
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2017
- Messages
- 199
Dammit said:
:floor: all hail the cab :worship: :worship:
I'll post my 2 penneth on ride while we wait for Chris and Pete's data analysis.
The handling results above are from a comparison around an 18m circle. Comments from Pete (who was driving) was that there wasn't a great deal of subjective difference between the cars in terms of grip. Tyres were the limiting factor and most cars were on Michelins. The car with CUP2 tyres had the best grip, it also had track focussed suspension.
Foolishly, I didn't note registration nos against car spec so I can't identify all the cars but Jamie's car is on Goodyears and mine has Pirellis on the front, can't bring myself to throw out fairly new tyres that the car came with!
My interest was ride but I only drove other cars on the track so I'm very keen to see Chris's road test results. He took each car along a varied road loop and measured vibration input on the passenger seat mounting rails.
As expected, my car with standard Ohlins (60/120NM) is far too hard for road use. The problem is particularly bad at the rear. It's no use having great dampers if the springs are so stiff they don't move! Of the other Ohlins cars Neil and Stephen have 90Nm on the rear and that's much better. Steve Bennett has 60NM and it rides magnificently. Neil has stock 60Nm on the front and the Stephens have 40Nm. I didn't do a back to back comparison but I would say that the car is more sensitive to the rear springs. I didn't compare over/understeer as a result of the springs and we didn't play with damper settings.
As an aside, I've been running on softer tyre pressures to compensate for the springs. For the test day, I went with Porsche spec pressures and found that, if anything, the ride improved - probably the dampers doing some work rather than the tyres!
Neil/Steve/Stephen have you any comments to add?
Ian's car on Bilstein PSS9s was good, very well sorted but I'm not sure of his spring rates.
Tommy's car on Konis was well damped but the lowered springs with reduced travel had some issues.
Given the standard car rates are 26/53 and the GT3 is 43/80, Ohlins are clearly too stiff for road use - my car was good on the smooth sections of the track.
Comments from other participants?
The handling results above are from a comparison around an 18m circle. Comments from Pete (who was driving) was that there wasn't a great deal of subjective difference between the cars in terms of grip. Tyres were the limiting factor and most cars were on Michelins. The car with CUP2 tyres had the best grip, it also had track focussed suspension.
Foolishly, I didn't note registration nos against car spec so I can't identify all the cars but Jamie's car is on Goodyears and mine has Pirellis on the front, can't bring myself to throw out fairly new tyres that the car came with!
My interest was ride but I only drove other cars on the track so I'm very keen to see Chris's road test results. He took each car along a varied road loop and measured vibration input on the passenger seat mounting rails.
As expected, my car with standard Ohlins (60/120NM) is far too hard for road use. The problem is particularly bad at the rear. It's no use having great dampers if the springs are so stiff they don't move! Of the other Ohlins cars Neil and Stephen have 90Nm on the rear and that's much better. Steve Bennett has 60NM and it rides magnificently. Neil has stock 60Nm on the front and the Stephens have 40Nm. I didn't do a back to back comparison but I would say that the car is more sensitive to the rear springs. I didn't compare over/understeer as a result of the springs and we didn't play with damper settings.
As an aside, I've been running on softer tyre pressures to compensate for the springs. For the test day, I went with Porsche spec pressures and found that, if anything, the ride improved - probably the dampers doing some work rather than the tyres!
Neil/Steve/Stephen have you any comments to add?
Ian's car on Bilstein PSS9s was good, very well sorted but I'm not sure of his spring rates.
Tommy's car on Konis was well damped but the lowered springs with reduced travel had some issues.
Given the standard car rates are 26/53 and the GT3 is 43/80, Ohlins are clearly too stiff for road use - my car was good on the smooth sections of the track.
Comments from other participants?
Good info chaps.
MY02 CSR is a lovely looking car. 8)
I'd heard that Steve Bennett fitted those softer rear spring to the Ohlins and he then found it too soft?
I think sometimes it can be a fruitless mission to try and make a sports car ride like a limo.
I'd be interested to know Chris and Pete's thoughts on ideal spring rates for road use on a C2. I'm guessing those rates will apply to a GT3 too given the similar weight and RWD platform.
Watching with interest. :thumb:
MY02 CSR is a lovely looking car. 8)
I'd heard that Steve Bennett fitted those softer rear spring to the Ohlins and he then found it too soft?
I think sometimes it can be a fruitless mission to try and make a sports car ride like a limo.
I'd be interested to know Chris and Pete's thoughts on ideal spring rates for road use on a C2. I'm guessing those rates will apply to a GT3 too given the similar weight and RWD platform.
Watching with interest. :thumb:
Yeah he does Neil. As I say to my wife 'You're a salesman's dream you are". :grin:
Only joking! I think Chris is always straight up on what he favours. I imagine yours will be the sweet spot.
Craig's rates ikon his C2 are the standard rears but we aren't sure if std is now 90 or still the 120. It rides really well though although the rear is a bit harsher than the KWs they replaced, so I'd guess 120 maybe.
60 sounds way too soft to me. Half of the originals.
I don't know what my Manthey KWs are but they're absolutely fine for road use. I have my dampers wound back to 3 from minimum though so I'm thinking if I go for softer springs I can probably go up on the damper settings and maybe get things even better. :?:
Only joking! I think Chris is always straight up on what he favours. I imagine yours will be the sweet spot.
Craig's rates ikon his C2 are the standard rears but we aren't sure if std is now 90 or still the 120. It rides really well though although the rear is a bit harsher than the KWs they replaced, so I'd guess 120 maybe.
60 sounds way too soft to me. Half of the originals.
I don't know what my Manthey KWs are but they're absolutely fine for road use. I have my dampers wound back to 3 from minimum though so I'm thinking if I go for softer springs I can probably go up on the damper settings and maybe get things even better. :?:
peterg1955
Monza
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2017
- Messages
- 199
Woohoo, mine is er, at the top of those results :worship: 8) :dont know: :hand: yeah I know it's not the fastest but who cares... :floor:
DF02 HRD - the spec is Basalt Black 2002 gen2 c2 coupe on 65k miles with factory fitted M030 sports suspension option - all arms/joints refreshed by CG 2 years ago but dampers are originals (Chris said they were well within tolerance.
I'm running Michelin PS4 tyres 225/40x18 front and 275/35x18 rear and they had 10k miles on them at the test day (still 5mm+ left on all of them)
Steve Bennett took my car out for a few laps so I'm interested to hear what his thoughts were but he did say after trying it that his car was too soft...
I had a go in a couple of other cars and to be honest the differences weren't great in the limited time we had but I'm glad I tried them as it reassured me that mine felt really good.
DF02 HRD - the spec is Basalt Black 2002 gen2 c2 coupe on 65k miles with factory fitted M030 sports suspension option - all arms/joints refreshed by CG 2 years ago but dampers are originals (Chris said they were well within tolerance.
I'm running Michelin PS4 tyres 225/40x18 front and 275/35x18 rear and they had 10k miles on them at the test day (still 5mm+ left on all of them)
Steve Bennett took my car out for a few laps so I'm interested to hear what his thoughts were but he did say after trying it that his car was too soft...
I had a go in a couple of other cars and to be honest the differences weren't great in the limited time we had but I'm glad I tried them as it reassured me that mine felt really good.
During the road test Chris said that the ride was jiggly but not uncomfortable. I had the dampers set at 17 clicks down from full hard. I am waiting to hear Chris' comments on all the cars but am considering changing the rear springs to 70 or. 80 which would be a better match to the front/rear weight distribution.and hopefully reduce the jiggly nature of the ride. My car is set at standard ride height because of the need to get out of my drive without destroying the front lip.
skinny_monkey
Montreal
- Joined
- 16 Sep 2014
- Messages
- 539
I think the spectral density data from the road test might be a bit more illuminating.
The suspension isn't doing much in steady state, it's more from tyres. Still interesting - i win the "how much can you lean" competition
The suspension isn't doing much in steady state, it's more from tyres. Still interesting - i win the "how much can you lean" competition
MisterCorn
Fuji
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2011
- Messages
- 9,411
skinny_monkey said:I think the spectral density data from the road test might be a bit more illuminating.
The suspension isn't doing much in steady state, it's more from tyres. Still interesting - i win the "how much can you lean" competition
That's what I said, or at least I said a good slalom and some dynamics would be more insightful. Only so much you can do with data from a constant speed circle.
MC
skinny_monkey
Montreal
- Joined
- 16 Sep 2014
- Messages
- 539
Indeed, though still a good day out.
It would be interesting to see if increased roll stiffness reduces grip from increased weight transfer to loaded tyres in steady state. Ive heard arguments both ways.
It would be interesting to see if increased roll stiffness reduces grip from increased weight transfer to loaded tyres in steady state. Ive heard arguments both ways.
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