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P9XX
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2018
Posts: 19
Location: Hertfordshire


PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've now had my tensioner replaced, about 10 days ago.
There is not much space to get the old bolts out or new ones back in so I decided to let my local indie do the job.
They did quite a lot of removal to get at the bolts but at least that allowed them to get a torque wrench on the new ones.
In detail, 3 hours labour to remove then re-fit the following :
Air Box, Rear Lamps, Rear Bumper Skin, Front (transverse) Muffler and Muffler Support.
Support weight of Engine then remove the Engine Carrier which is the component in the way.
On re-assembly, new Cat to Muffler bolts (6) fitted.

Having asked for the old parts to be given back, I've cleaned them up to see what had failed.



The new Tensioner in place:



The bigger surprise was that it seems the Hydraulic Tensioner is seized solid, still full of oil. The Pivot Bolt for the Lever had become slightly loose which transferred all the movement in the system to between the Pivot Bolt and the inside face of the Pivot Sleeve which now has the start of a thread being formed inside. I guess the movement here could cause the Pivot Bolt to snap as the Tensioner mechanism was now solid.

Anyhoo, all's well again, for now.
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2008 997.2 C2S PDK Basalt Black
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7267
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every garage will have a different way of doing these .. porsche instructions often say remove parts to gain access .. you don't always need to .

I've done many of these .. i have small hands and have worked out the tools i need .. and indeed have modified them to do this job .

Therefore i do it in 1hr .

If i had bigger hands and lets face it just about every mechanic does ( i'm only little ) then this is a harder job and better access is required Smile


AT The End of the Day .. i made this post to highlight an issue .. people have checked and have either found or not found an issue ..

For this i'm chuffed to bits as its job done Very Happy
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sjfpdk
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2017
Posts: 8



PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers DeMort, Just had an oil change and ask them to take a look at the tensioner/pully and they found that it has seized.

So thanks for the info on this as I would have not known to ask about checking it.

Regards Steven
 
  
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murph7355
Trainee


Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 63



PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the family away I decided I should check this.

Getting the airbox out was easy. Getting it back in again was a pita - getting the rubber hose over the throttle body evidently has a knack that I don't think I have (and that involved making sure the lugs are in their housings properly I think Smile). Either that or Oompa-Loompa hands.

If I cannot move no.3 at all, should I assume the whole lot is seized?

I don't have a 30mm spanner (nor a 32mm one) so was using an adjustable spanner which isn't ideal (especially as the jaws on mine aren't that sturdy). And the material the hex is made of on mine seems very soft...but tried to move it in both directions with nothing whatsoever moving.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7267
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to move 30mm nut clockwise .. an adjustable spanner should do as long as it's done up tight and not rounding the nut .

If not moving at all then it would appear to have a problem but bear in mind there is a fair bit on tension on it .

Rubber pipe is tricky .. undo the jubilee clip as far as you can without it fully undoing then slide it back towards the air box .

pull out the top part of the rubber bellows and use your fingers inside of it to push the lower part over the throttle .. then fit the top section .

Airbox pins tend to line up if you use the blue rubber grommet and plastic pin as a guide .. i can just about get my hand under one side to check but a rule of thumb is it won't go down if the pins have totally missed the grommets .
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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murph7355
Trainee


Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 63



PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
You need to move 30mm nut clockwise .. an adjustable spanner should do as long as it's done up tight and not rounding the nut .

If not moving at all then it would appear to have a problem but bear in mind there is a fair bit on tension on it .

Rubber pipe is tricky .. undo the jubilee clip as far as you can without it fully undoing then slide it back towards the air box .

pull out the top part of the rubber bellows and use your fingers inside of it to push the lower part over the throttle .. then fit the top section .

Airbox pins tend to line up if you use the blue rubber grommet and plastic pin as a guide .. i can just about get my hand under one side to check but a rule of thumb is it won't go down if the pins have totally missed the grommets .

Ta.

On the airbox, that's the technique I worked out. Now have a couple of layers less skin on my fingers but it's back on.

I think I might have to look for a better adjustable spanner or by a 30mm and 32mm one Smile
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7267
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im 90 % sure its a 30mm spanner .. trouble is as a mechanic i have 30 - 36 and tend to grab what fits without taking much notice of the size ... i currently have 7 different sets of spanners for different jobs .

well done for working out the best way of refitting the pipe .. trust me it took me many attempts and i do this for a living !

move it clockwise .. if it doesn't return then the pivot is seized .. if it doesn't move at all then the tensioner is seized but i've not seen that yet .. they are pretty stiff to move as standard .
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

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Now At An Indy.
 
  
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P9XX
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2018
Posts: 19
Location: Hertfordshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murph7355 : Spanner size is 30 mm. Bought mine from Halfords, ring and open ended combination spanner for £12.99. 400 mm long so get good leverage.

Refitting the rubber to throttle body made easier with a little silicone spray on a clean cloth then smear inside the rubber hose and on the step on the throttle body.

Everything else as deMort says.
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murph7355
Trainee


Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 63



PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P9XX wrote:
Murph7355 : Spanner size is 30 mm. Bought mine from Halfords, ring and open ended combination spanner for £12.99. 400 mm long so get good leverage.

Refitting the rubber to throttle body made easier with a little silicone spray on a clean cloth then smear inside the rubber hose and on the step on the throttle body.

Everything else as deMort says.

Thanks very much. Will pop in if I get half a chance tomorrow...saves me having a 32mm in the tool kit Smile

How easily did yours move?
 
  
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P9XX
Newbie


Joined: 04 Oct 2018
Posts: 19
Location: Hertfordshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My adjustable spanner would not move the lever at all but then it's only 9 inches long.
The new 30 mm spanner is huge in comparison and it took a worrying amount of force to get any movement clockwise at all. A slight movement turned the lever and the pivot bolt together. The Aux belt became slack and had no tendency to re-tension automatically when the spanner was removed. I had to manually re-tension the belt by turning anti-clockwise. See deMorts comments on this.
I've had everything replaced to do with the tensioner and believe the lever and the hydraulic tensioner were both seized - see my pictures above. The hydraulic tensioner has a meaty spring inside but even squeezing it in a vice could not force any movement.
Finally, bear in mind if you get a "garage" to do the job for you, deMort can do the job with 1 hours labour, my local charged 3 hours but had to remove lots to get at it. Again, see my post above. So quite a big price variance.
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murph7355
Trainee


Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 63



PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First up thanks guys for the advice Smile

The spanner is 100% definitely a 30mm. If a spanner can be "bad ass", I now have a bad ass spanner (the Halfords one). It's a monster. Very satisfying to use!

I managed to do the check and get everything fitted back together in 15mins (plus one bleeding knuckle and several layers of finger skin removed). 5mins to get it off and do the check, 10mins to get it back together.

There's some neat engineering under there, but why on earth they couldn't allow another few mm or for what I'm assuming is the throttle pot' to be easily removable I don't know Smile

And the result was...not seized. Woohoo!

With the bad ass spanner the tensioner could be moved clockwise easily. Retaining bolt didn't move at all, belt slackened (bowed to the left). Let it go and the belt went tight again (straight on the left). All felt pretty smooth despite the bracket and nut etc looking a bit manky. Could sense the tensioner compressing.

The hex nut doesn't need to move very far to slacken the belt.

This is, guaranteed, the prelude to me posting on here again within a month with a FUBAR'd engine. But until then quite happy -£500 saved which is unusual for my cars thus far this year!

Presumably it's worth checking these annually?

(Incidentally...2010 car with 82k miles on it).
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7267
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait till you see the size of the 36mm spanner !! .. that is the one i call impressive and also the largest one needed for normal work on Porsches .

Not seized is good and at your mileage then i expect it will be fine from now on , they are checked on a 2 year service if you have the belt check done ...

my assumption on these is its the amount of water that gets on them as these are used on other models without a problem ... these are a bit more open allowing water .. salt etc etc .
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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chunkymonkey1982
Newbie


Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 21



PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

As a part of a 111 Check at a OPC they asked if the belt had been changed, since i'm the new owner i looked at the paperwork and cannot see a change since 2013 since then its been checked but not changed. Went to change it today and noticed that using a 30mm spanner i could move the tensioner to relax the belt, but the tensioner would not spring back on its own. Does this mean its knackered? Would applying lubricant help? the Torx bolt did not move.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7267
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's seized i'm afraid and needs replacing.

There is no way i'm aware of to free it off .
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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Windy101
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Jun 2015
Posts: 262



PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A forum member sent me a PM asking me about the cost of parts for this job. I thought I would share costs and part numbers, I bought all the parts from Porsche apart from the damper which I deduced is a generic part made by INA.

Details below.

I bought the tensioning arm roller, bolts etc from Porsche

Drive Belt Tensioner Lever
Part #: 9A210221100 (0PB 903 308) (part now superseded to 0PB903308) £100.36 ex vat - 10% £108.38 inc vat Part available from Porsche

:also use cap blank for bolt for roller (part of above supersession)
94810283900 £4.05 ex vat -10% £4.37 inc vat Part available from Porsche


Drive Belt Tensioner Lever Bolt £2.23 ex vat -10% £2.41 inc vat Part available from Porsche
Part #: 999-073-579-01-M100

Roller
Part #: 9A110221200 Roller £54.09 ex vat -10% £58.42 inc vat Part available from Porsche

Roller Bolt
Part #: 99907357901 Roller Bolt £2.12 ex vat -10% £2.29 inc vat Part available from Porsche

Bolt
Part #: 99907341101 Bolt (part now superseded to 9A700803500) £1.22 ex vat -10% £1.32 inc vat Part available from Porsche

Bolt
Part #: 99907324609 Bolt (part now superseded to 99907324602) £1.80 ex vat -10% £1.94 inc vat Part available from Porsche

Bolt
Part #: 99907341201 Bolt (part now superseded to PAF008361) £1.73 ex vat -10% £1.87 inc vat Part available from Porsche




Also This page was useful

https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/4741/POR_4741_ELCHRG_pg5.htm#item19

It shows the tensioner is made by INA for porsche and so i bought an INA part from ebay. I think it was around £50 delivered.

Parts cost me in total about £230 delivered.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7267
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At work we would tend to replace the drive belt ..

2 reasons .. you have it off the car so only parts cost ..

Due to a seized tensioner it will have been under increased strain and whilst it may look fine it may well be weakened .

The tensioner really comes down to what condition its in when you remove it .

I will say .. its very stiff and you will need a vice to compress it .. any signs of leakage and we replace .
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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chunkymonkey1982
Newbie


Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 21



PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

Using the advice above from DeMort and Windy, last week I replaced the tensioner on my 911. Was relatively straight forward but needed to make my own tools. One concern is that I couldn't use a torque wrench due to the tight space. Will monitor it to check for issues.

Cost 300 for all parts from OPC, thats the roller, tensioner, arm and bolts from OPC.

Was quoted 500 to do the job by an Indy, OPC would have been higher.

Simple job but space is tight so you need to think out of the box.

Happy to share the tools ive made if anyone is near and wants to borrow them.

So far so good.

Next job is to replace spark plugs and heat shields Surprised
 



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Windy101
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Jun 2015
Posts: 262



PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent job, Sounds like you used exactly the same approach re tools as me.

Regarding torqueing the bolts up I managed to get a torque wrench in to all but 1 of the bolts and just did the one I could not get to by feel.
 
  
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