Bore Scoring Paranoia

+1.

infrasilver said:

me&my997 said:

this forum represents such a small minority of UK owners yet at times creates a majority of negativity

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I don't necessarily agree with that, this is the place to come if you want some sound advice, as was given in this thread, you go read anywhere else and people can't control themselves get all hot headed and give out poor advice regarding the known issues, they usually haven't actually got a clue and have just heard rumors but feel like they need to say something anyway.

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Where else :dont know: i'm not knocking the forum , as you say its a great resource , full of knowledge & better still full of enthusiastic owners but i will stand by what i wrote , across the number of 911 currently on UK roads it represents a minority yet much of the negativity that surrounds the cars stems from here .
You have to bear in mind that many of the magazine writers (of any marque) simply trawl the relevant forums for knowledge & inside information .
Yes there are issues , yes there are problems but in the case of this op why would he need to spend any time or money looking for problems that aren't even there

Well you're hardly gonna hear any negativity from the majority that aren't on any media platforms like this are you? :?

You can't ignore facts about these cars just to make people feel good.

Yes they have problems, but they wipe the floor with most stuff out there, especially for the price.

Alex said:

Well you're hardly gonna hear any negativity from the majority that aren't on any media platforms like this are you? :?

You can't ignore facts about these cars just to make people feel good.
.

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Many other cars do too & not just performance cars like Porsche , the majority will hit a certain mile or marker & have predictable fails ( within a certain % ) that therefore creates a internet trail but with regards major fail on models discussed on this forum the % seems to be accepted at under 10% (IMS + bearing fail) so a lump less than the number of N52 Bmw that will have waterpump fail under 60k or N54 that will have injectors & hpfp fail sub 45k .
Yes it happens but no need to scare off each & every newbie who passes here with disaster stories that will happen to them sooner or later .
Those who are determined to bring out the bad they should at least offer up some numbers to substantiate their claims , not just carry on shouting "get a borescope done get a borescope done get a borescope done "

& for the record i bought my 2006 86k 997 without having a ppi or borescope done :what:

me&my997 said:

Where else :dont know:

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Facebook groups, all the magazines (they just peddle what they are told), Pistonheads, Rennlist, there are many other places

infrasilver said:

me&my997 said:

Where else :dont know:

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Facebook groups, all the magazines (they just peddle what they are told), Pistonheads, Rennlist, there are many other places

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Facebook i have no idea on because i'm not a member & magazines i suspect in general are not written by owners (unless brand specific ) just researchers who study what has already been written then regurgitate .
Just to clarify i accept there are fails , just as there are with any other cars , i just don't agree it will happen to each & every car / owner

People say 'get a bore scope done' because its the best advice for someone buying a car that has a generic fault where the bores score!!

Be in denial if you want, but you spouting that advice is scare mongering is a ***** thousand times worse!

I'll pay the bill of anyone who suffers from my advice......will you?

No one is saying it will happen to each and every owner. All the forum does is try to make sure a perspective owner is aware of the issues and is advised how best to make sure they don't buy a lemon.

I also take the view that the vast majority on here use specialists to service / look after their cars and if they are anything like the ones I know then they all tell me never buy one.........even buying a 987.2 the first comments I get are 'you did well not to buy a .1". Even recently buying some parts from a breakers when I told them the part was for a .2 and not a .1 they stated they hardly saw any as they are bombproof, yep, the specialise in breaking 996 and 997's with engine failures.

Now I don't buy into that you should not buy one stance ie an informed purchaser, buying with eyes wide open, can get as much out of a .1 ownership as from any other sports car out there. I would not do it as I know my mentality could not live with the daily thought of the engine going pop, not because of the cost but just the shear hassle of it all ........but I respect for other it may be the right car for them.

So to echo the above, I think the posts on here are very valid, yes they will upset some who get fed up hearing the same old advice regurgitated but I for one won;t apologise for that. The advice is balanced, factually correct and informative to a potential purchaser. Not once do I recall a 'don't buy it" comment (unless its failed a bore score). It's great you got one without carrying out the standard checks, you where lucky, it does not mean you where right IMHO.

I get you don't like the comments but don;t tarnish the forum with something it ain't .........it always seems to find a way of doing the right thing which is what makes it such a popular forum in the first place as most can see and appreciate that ;-)

jonttt said:

No one is saying it will happen to each and every owner. All the forum does is try to make sure a perspective owner is aware of the issues and is advised how best to make sure they don't buy a lemon.

I also take the view that the vast majority on here use specialists to service / look after their cars and if they are anything like the ones I know then they all tell me never buy one.........even buying a 987.2 the first comments I get are 'you did well not to buy a .1". Even recently buying some parts from a breakers when I told them the part was for a .2 and not a .1 they stated they hardly saw any as they are bombproof, yep, the specialise in breaking 996 and 997's with engine failures.

Now I don't buy into that you should not buy one stance ie an informed purchaser, buying with eyes wide open, can get as much out of a .1 ownership as from any other sports car out there. I would not do it as I know my mentality could not live with the daily thought of the engine going pop, not because of the cost but just the shear hassle of it all ........but I respect for other it may be the right car for them.

So to echo the above, I think the posts on here are very valid, yes they will upset some who get fed up hearing the same old advice regurgitated but I for one won;t apologise for that. The advice is balanced, factually correct and informative to a potential purchaser. Not once do I recall a 'don't buy it" comment (unless its failed a bore score). It's great you got one without carrying out the standard checks, you where lucky, it does not mean you where right IMHO.

I get you don't like the comments but don;t tarnish the forum with something it ain't .........it always seems to find a way of doing the right thing which is what makes it such a popular forum in the first place as most can see and appreciate that ;-)

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+ 1. I always think I'm missing something with these debates. Surely the facts are pretty simple, a percentage will suffer due to a known design fault, but no one knows the percentage, anyone who exercises due diligence with information from forums such as this will get a susceptible vehicle checked before purchase, what puzzles me Is that even if you get it checked it can suffer from borescore at anytime, and any mileage, meaning the check is only of use at that time. Unless those aren't facts having the information out there can only be a good thing surely :dont know:

This reminds me of the crank shaft bearing failure on Discovery 4's, if you were to read the majority of comments on all the forums you would never buy one, yet the vast majority of users / owners outside of forums aren't even aware of crank shaft failure.
Sure there's always that bloke at the scrap yard who's an expert on everything that makes a living from those that can't drive properly and the experts who can't look after their cars in accordance with service schedules, or that bloke who lives down the road who knows some one that knew a bloke who thinks might have bought a 911 or was it a Mazda ?
Did it stop me from buying one NO !

Oil Dilution is apparently melting engines left right and centre in Discovery 5's, Range Rovers, sports and Velars, I've got one of those sat on the drive as well.

I understand that the 997.1 has inherent flaws, I bought one a month ago. At the time of purchase what would have been the point in me paying for some one to do something that I know is already there ? To me it makes no sense ? To 99% of forum members on here it clearly makes sense and to those who are offering the service and PPI's it also looks like it is a good idea.

Every single car I've ever had from a Ford Fiesta first ever car at 18 years old to an Audi Sport Quattro has suffered from some manufacturing defect or another. So what does every one do, Google ! And this confirms their worst fear, then all of a sudden they're self proclaimed experts because they diagnosed a fault on something more often than not they manage to confirm something they don't even own ? Or diagnose an illness based on other people's ailments because the internet said that's what the symptoms are ! If I were to sit panicking about everything I bought I'd be a very rich man, I'd never go out of the house or buy anything !

It's great that these forums exist, my wife's elated that I've sat for weeks reading endless reams on multiple forums gleaning as much info as possible whilst desperately trying not to buy the next best thing and the next best thing.......... I wanted a cheap car to plonk in the garage, use sparingly on a weekend and maybe take to the odd meet or gathering, what I actually needed was a 997 with 500bhp, carbon seats, a turbo, ceramic brakes and centre lock wheels with a GT3 RS badge on the lid.

I'll take the gen 1 C4S 997 with all its ailments, put the £400k+ In to property and if and when it does happen I'll swear for a bit then buy something else that's inherently flawed and doomed with catastrophic failure.

Mmmmmm that's OK then..........but the facts remain the facts, they are not rumors, they are not speculation and when you visit an Indy that actually has several engines in waiting for rebuilds and if you have the opportunity to visit Hartech who yes make a living from rebuilding around the design faults then you 'know" based on facts that the issues exist.

Yes most cars have some form of design fault, I would never ever buy a Range Rover out of manufacturer warranty (Having >£50k of warranty claims under my belt) based on first hand experience, I advise others the same based on my experience (and the fact one of my best mates runs a Range Rover Franchise), BMW's have their faults, Mercedes have their faults etc... etc... to me the 'issue" with the 9x7.1 engine issues is it is catastrophic when it happens BUT you can mitigate it from happening to you. I liken it to playing Russian roulette, a 9x7.2 has no bullets in the chamber (in relative terms) but a 9x7.1 has bullets in the chamber. You can argue over how many bullets but the fact remains 'are you feeling lucky?". There is simply no way around that I'm afraid (unless you buy a car which has already had a proven solution around the design flaws).

Personally I would rather know if the gun has a bullet in it or not and then make an informed decision which to me is as much about your mental attitude as anything else. Again that is based on real first hand experience of a mate buying one without the knowledge and despite the car being fine and with a Hartech maintenance plan in place he still sold it within 6 months with a ruined Porsche dream all because he could not live with that bullet in the gun, he had the wrong mental attitude and it was simply the wrong car for him.

Just to bring things back into perspective with regard this particular thread , the op has a 60k gen2 C2S , following the general forum consensus aren't they the only ones to buy if you don't want sleepless nights :?
Or has it now reached the point where even they need a PPI & borescore report ?

I had the crank shaft failure on my first Discovery 4, having read all about it online I thought it was over egged and didn't worry about it, all of a sudden I was faced with a £14k repair bill (it was out of warranty) - not a nice situation, so it does pay to do your due diligence and prepare for the eventualities.

I wonder what percentage of threads on here have the words 'Bore Score' in them, hell I know the majority of my posts on here mention it! I think it's possibly not proportionate to the risk. I posted a thread about my first 12 months of ownership and what a great, reliable and cheap year of motoring I'd had and it barely got a reply, no-ones' interested in that, if I'd posted saying my car had a lumpy idol, sooty exhaust pipe and was drinking oil I expect it would have had way more response.

I do agree that problems can be over emphasised, it's not an absolute given that bore scoring will occur during everyone's ownership - but reading on here you'd believe it is - 1 person suffers from it and 10 people regurgitate the story, which makes it seems 10 times worse - there are people who've never even owned a 997 let alone suffered with bore scoring that constantly bang the drum and it does induce paranoia for owners, whether that's a good thing or not I'm not sure as at least people are prepared for the eventuality should it happen to them.

My 997.1 was rebuilt due to scoring at 49k, people have insinuated on here that my car is still a ticking time bomb because although all 6 liners were replaced they weren't done at Hartech, however i've managed to have 15k of fantastic motoring from mine since the rebuild and it's certainly not showing any signs of problems (touch wood) - if I listened to those implying my car is no better than a car that hadn't been rebuilt I'd either of spent those 15k miles worrying about the engine blowing or i'd have sold the thing and missed out on owning what is an absolutely fantastic car.

Don't buy a Porsche if you don't have big enough pockets to spend a small fortune on fixing it if it goes wrong, simple as that. If the worst case scenario isn't going to bankrupt you then just drive, enjoy, and cross any bridges as and when you come to them!

me&my997 said:

Just to bring things back into perspective with regard this particular thread , the op has a 60k gen2 C2S , following the general forum consensus aren't they the only ones to buy if you don't want sleepless nights :?
Or has it now reached the point where even they need a PPI & borescore report ?

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Based on your reply to the OP's question ie the 3rd reply on the thread ...

me&my997 said:

Then what after the bore inspection ? Are you willing to spend £12k/£14k should there be a trace of borescoring ?

I accept that there is much negativity over these cars mainly generated by the motoring press & indeed this forum but why not enjoy your car until such time as a fail prevents you ?
In the meantime change the oil yearly / 7k-8k , warm it up thoroughly & just treat it right with regard maintenance & upkeep .

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Which was then corrected a few posts later correctly by Spongbob who answered stating that for a .2 it was not an issue.

So the thread went off track from your reply, that was corrected relatively quickly with the correct advice but the reference to .1 engines was kept alive by .1 owners so far as I can see. The question asked should simply have been answered with a 'no, you are being paranoid as .2 engines DO NOT suffer from Bore Score as per the .1 engines" end of thread :thumb:

Robert SausageTrousers said:

I had the crank shaft failure on my first Discovery 4, having read all about it online I thought it was over egged and didn't worry about it, all of a sudden I was faced with a £14k repair bill (it was out of warranty) - not a nice situation, so it does pay to do your due diligence and prepare for the eventualities.

I wonder what percentage of threads on here have the words 'Bore Score' in them, hell I know the majority of my posts on here mention it! I think it's possibly not proportionate to the risk. I posted a thread about my first 12 months of ownership and what a great, reliable and cheap year of motoring I'd had and it barely got a reply, no-ones' interested in that, if I'd posted saying my car had a lumpy idol, sooty exhaust pipe and was drinking oil I expect it would have had way more response.

I do agree that problems can be over emphasised, it's not an absolute given that bore scoring will occur during everyone's ownership - but reading on here you'd believe it is - 1 person suffers from it and 10 people regurgitate the story, which makes it seems 10 times worse - there are people who've never even owned a 997 let alone suffered with bore scoring that constantly bang the drum and it does induce paranoia for owners, whether that's a good thing or not I'm not sure as at least people are prepared for the eventuality should it happen to them.

My 997.1 was rebuilt due to scoring at 49k, people have insinuated on here that my car is still a ticking time bomb because although all 6 liners were replaced they weren't done at Hartech, however i've managed to have 15k of fantastic motoring from mine since the rebuild and it's certainly not showing any signs of problems (touch wood) - if I listened to those implying my car is no better than a car that hadn't been rebuilt I'd either of spent those 15k miles worrying about the engine blowing or i'd have sold the thing and missed out on owning what is an absolutely fantastic car.

Don't buy a Porsche if you don't have big enough pockets to spend a small fortune on fixing it if it goes wrong, simple as that. If the worst case scenario isn't going to bankrupt you then just drive, enjoy, and cross any bridges as and when you come to them!

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I can agree with all of that but such is the nature of the internet, this forum being vastly more 'balanced" than the majority. The reference to people not owning a .1 but constantly 'banging the drum" applies to me perfectly. That's because I simply could not own a .1 with my mentality. I make no apologies for that but despite not owning one I know more than most about it. Does that mean I should stay quite :?: I often don't post on threads, very conscious of the owners of the cars but when I feel it is right to do so I do. I'm human I may get that wrong sometimes but I learned a long time ago not to lose sleep over errors so long as the intent was correct. It is the best way to learn and I'm still learning like everyone else.