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krispe
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 246
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's still a 3.9 conversion on the 997.1 3.8 using 100mm liners. I had it done to mine and can't say I could really tell a difference from when it was a 3.8. The 3.9 conversion includes a remap which problem gives the most gains as the actual cc increase is so small going from 3.8-3.9. In hindsight I would have just stuck with a rebuilt 3.8, 200cel cats and then a remap by Wayne.

However I really would not bother with the rebuild yet. Wait until either the oil consumption hits >1L per 1000 miles or there is a loud tapping noise at idle from bank 2. Bore score is a slow death and could take 10's of thousands of miles before it becomes a real issue or may not even develop into an issue at all.
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16681
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies - it is 3.9.
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MaxA
Albert Park


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1591
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be tempted to take it to Hartech for a look-see and then, if it does need a rebuild, then schedule the work for the winter when you might want to take the car off the road. And I'd get all 6 cylinders sorted. Or, if you simply got lucky, you can just just drive the thing.
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krispe
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 246
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
My apologies - it is 3.9.


But it is possibly going to be a 4.0 on the 997 gen 2 (9A1 engine) so you are half right Wink

I am not expecting to have any issues with my 3.4 9A1 engine Cayman GTS, but if I do I love the idea of a Hartech 4.0 rebuild. That would make a significant increase in performance. Cool Mr. Green
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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1257
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom_nieto wrote:
T8 wrote:
If it's only got light scoring on 2 cylinders are you going to run it until it actually needs something doing. Question


Absolutely this. Drive the car for a bit and see what it's like. If it's ticking and drinking oil then you might want to expedite the repair. The worst that will happen in the meantime is worsening of the scoring. Be very happy that you've got enough cash off the purchase price to get a rebuild if it's needed.

If the engine is out anyway, I'd probably go for a full 6 cylinder re-line. Not sold on the merits of a 3.8 to 3.9 conversion. The extra money is probably better spent on petrol for driving the car or other modifications such as a sporty exhaust or intake manifold.


+2

Agree all of these 3.8 gen 1 engines will have bore scoring to greater or lesser extent at some point in their lives. If its not consuming any oil enjoy as long as you can IMO. As above I think Hartech offer a 4.0 do they not? Congrats!
 
  
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SimonBash
Trainee


Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 53



PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMI A wrote:
tom_nieto wrote:
T8 wrote:
If it's only got light scoring on 2 cylinders are you going to run it until it actually needs something doing. Question


Absolutely this. Drive the car for a bit and see what it's like. If it's ticking and drinking oil then you might want to expedite the repair. The worst that will happen in the meantime is worsening of the scoring. Be very happy that you've got enough cash off the purchase price to get a rebuild if it's needed.

If the engine is out anyway, I'd probably go for a full 6 cylinder re-line. Not sold on the merits of a 3.8 to 3.9 conversion. The extra money is probably better spent on petrol for driving the car or other modifications such as a sporty exhaust or intake manifold.


+2

Agree all of these 3.8 gen 1 engines will have bore scoring to greater or lesser extent at some point in their lives. If its not consuming any oil enjoy as long as you can IMO. As above I think Hartech offer a 4.0 do they not? Congrats!


I am thinking this is the best route, until I live with the car I won’t have a handle on oil consumption etc. The longer it lasts the more financially I am prepared for the trip to Hartech!
 
  
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IMI A
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1257
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SimonBash wrote:
IMI A wrote:
tom_nieto wrote:
T8 wrote:
If it's only got light scoring on 2 cylinders are you going to run it until it actually needs something doing. Question


Absolutely this. Drive the car for a bit and see what it's like. If it's ticking and drinking oil then you might want to expedite the repair. The worst that will happen in the meantime is worsening of the scoring. Be very happy that you've got enough cash off the purchase price to get a rebuild if it's needed.

If the engine is out anyway, I'd probably go for a full 6 cylinder re-line. Not sold on the merits of a 3.8 to 3.9 conversion. The extra money is probably better spent on petrol for driving the car or other modifications such as a sporty exhaust or intake manifold.


+2

Agree all of these 3.8 gen 1 engines will have bore scoring to greater or lesser extent at some point in their lives. If its not consuming any oil enjoy as long as you can IMO. As above I think Hartech offer a 4.0 do they not? Congrats!


I am thinking this is the best route, until I live with the car I won’t have a handle on oil consumption etc. The longer it lasts the more financially I am prepared for the trip to Hartech!


What is normal consumption per say 1000 miles on this model 911?

On a turbo its normal to use up to 1 litre every 1000 miles which seemed high to me but its completely normal. Some turbo engines use this much every 1000 miles and others use very little. Type of oil important too especially as engines get older. Worth reading up on for your model.
 
  
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tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 244



PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMI A wrote:


What is normal consumption per say 1000 miles on this model 911?

On a turbo its normal to use up to 1 litre every 1000 miles which seemed high to me but its completely normal. Some turbo engines use this much every 1000 miles and others use very little. Type of oil important too especially as engines get older. Worth reading up on for your model.


I think 1l per 1000 miles is quoted as within normal limits for the NA engines too.
 
  
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SimonBash
Trainee


Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 53



PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For mine I’ll be keeping an eye on oil consumption and also the sooty exhaust, excessive smoke on start up and the dreaded tap/knock.

It’s got a 250 mile trip home tomorrow after collection so will be interesting to see how it does.

I know it needs the alternator wire seeing to as the seller has the lazy crank issue when the weather is warm.

Also thinking of the following pretty immediately:

1. Oil and filter change - OPC or specialist
2. Alternator wire as above
3. Zunsport grills as AC is all good at present
4. Low temp thermostat
5. 3rd rad but I’m still reading up on this

The OPC oil change appeals as I’m curious to see the laundry list of items they highlight as requiring attention!

Any input welcome as always!
 
  
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1227



PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom_nieto wrote:
IMI A wrote:


What is normal consumption per say 1000 miles on this model 911?

On a turbo its normal to use up to 1 litre every 1000 miles which seemed high to me but its completely normal. Some turbo engines use this much every 1000 miles and others use very little. Type of oil important too especially as engines get older. Worth reading up on for your model.


I think 1l per 1000 miles is quoted as within normal limits for the NA engines too.


It's 600 miles per litre I believe......

All engines, even a 1 litre mini engine, will need a rebuild at some stage.

OP, please, get Hartech to have a look before you commit, or someone else who knows their stuff if they are miles away. Don't fall into the trap of doing something because something is better. There is needed, and there is better. Needed is something you do, better is over engineered and expensive.

Once has someone trying to tell me I 'needed' to spend £2,500 on a stereo upgrade because it was better...........

Engineers have a lot to answer for.
 
  
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1139



PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zunsport grills are great but my black, Ally mesh and stainless self tappers off Ebay look just as good for less than £20. Well actually they are very unobtrusive so you hardly see them. If you are into DIY, save your money.
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7209
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maldren wrote:
Zunsport grills are great but my black, Ally mesh and stainless self tappers off Ebay look just as good for less than £20. Well actually they are very unobtrusive so you hardly see them. If you are into DIY, save your money.


Absolutely. A good first DIY project.

MC
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16681
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my first ones: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=94843
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SimonBash
Trainee


Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 53



PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
One of my first ones: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=94843


Looks good Alex!
 
  
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NLW73
Albert Park


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1512
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have to get the engine out and sorted then why would you not do all 6 liners?

It’s going to cost a bit more in parts but not much in labour as it’s all opened up and it’s going to not only be worth more on re sale you have the reassurance that it’s all been sorted by a top outfit like hartech

You get a warranty for the work too so it’s all good news

Maybe do the clutch and IMS too (if early 997) when open

When I was looking for a 997 I would only consider one with a full rebuild by hartech on all 6 liners. I wanted a car with some mileage and not a garage queen.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15891
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NLW73 wrote:


If you have to get the engine out and sorted then why would you not do all 6 liners?



This advice seemed to be the consensus early on. The later debate was as to whether the rebuild should be done pre-emptively or left until it is actually needed.
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Basalt911
Newbie


Joined: 12 Feb 2019
Posts: 46



PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
NLW73 wrote:


If you have to get the engine out and sorted then why would you not do all 6 liners?



This advice seemed to be the consensus early on. The later debate was as to whether the rebuild should be done pre-emptively or left until it is actually needed.


another vote for live with it, for now at least

my 94k miler 3.8 goes like a train and has always used a bit of oil, but it doesn't get any worse with miles and i take all the usual preventative measures...I'm not planning for the long and expensive drive to Bolton for some time yet....
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7209
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see any merit in doing a preemptive rebuild for bore scoring. Big end bearings, yes, but not bore scoring.

MC
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15312
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thread to read and it seems the right advise given . I had mine rebuilt by Hartech and TBH didn't even at any point consider other rebuilders .

I know others with 997.1s who have light scoring and are still running and enjoying the car while monitoring the symptoms and saving to get the rebuild at some point, and agree its not a catastrophic failure but a gradual decline so it doesn't hurt to wait .

Re the option to do other things. as Krispe noted and I was told the 3.8 to 3.9 conversion is not a significant change and would suggest that getting the rebuilt engine remapped by Chipwizards while its up with Hartech and spending the extra money on things like new tandem pump, new coolant pipes , new high pressure pump etc etc. would be better use of the cash than the conversion to 3.9 from 3.8.

also worth consideration would be a new stainless steel exhaust maybe valved option this is lighter than OE and also better flowing and will add BHP .

Its an 06 car so very likely its got the newer better IMS bearings anyway so that won't need doing

keep us posted on progress Thumb Thumb
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