ch3tman said:
dug out my pics comparing the original Bosch unit to the design 911 bosch that fits 993 and later....
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zp2iPtzMmE6gXsVV6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Np3fZFfsbWZR8xwFA
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Starter Motor .. Again!
- Thread starter ballcock
- Start date
dug out my pics comparing the original Bosch unit to the design 911 bosch that fits 993 and later....
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zp2iPtzMmE6gXsVV6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Np3fZFfsbWZR8xwFA
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ch3tman
Suzuka
- Joined
- 8 Dec 2012
- Messages
- 1,082
Many thanks wilsonny for the info and digging out the photo comparison above. Much appreciated. If there are no drawbacks (long term? any impact whatsoever?) to having the shorter motor it seems sensible to go for itwilsonny said:did mine myself this last winter, the drivers side driveshaft has to be disconnected to get in there, so that adds a bit of time . top fastener is completely blind, but shorter motor (it's only about 20mm) makes a world of difference. indie time...not sure...3 or 4 hours maybe ?ch3tman said:Thanks ballcock :thumbs:. It's been on the to-do list for a while along with the earth strap. As mentioned by many, both are clearly a weak point on the car and appears to be the cause of various issues, so will get it done before either completely fails. Another labour intensive item...:roll: great...ballcock said:@ ch3tman, Bosch were the OE supplier.
I've been told its a bit of a b1tch to swap out as it sits on top of the gearbox (?) and has to be removed by Brailleso expect a few hours labour.
.ch3tman said:Many thanks wilsonny for the info and digging out the photo comparison above. Much appreciated. If there are no drawbacks (long term? any impact whatsoever?) to having the shorter motor it seems sensible to go for itwilsonny said:did mine myself this last winter, the drivers side driveshaft has to be disconnected to get in there, so that adds a bit of time . top fastener is completely blind, but shorter motor (it's only about 20mm) makes a world of difference. indie time...not sure...3 or 4 hours maybe ?ch3tman said:Thanks ballcock :thumbs:. It's been on the to-do list for a while along with the earth strap. As mentioned by many, both are clearly a weak point on the car and appears to be the cause of various issues, so will get it done before either completely fails. Another labour intensive item...:roll: great...ballcock said:@ ch3tman, Bosch were the OE supplier.
I've been told its a bit of a b1tch to swap out as it sits on top of the gearbox (?) and has to be removed by Braille
only had it on 6 months... but it is more powerful than the original, fits perfect (easier to fit) and is the oem bosch model for 996 and later, so seems like a no brainer to me.
Watching this thread with a bit of interest given it seems some starter motors fail after what seems like not a lot of use...?
Just some generalised thinking...... Perhaps the failures are as a result of the effect of lay up and lengthy cranking periods and on a battery with reducing voltage which can result to some degree of possible overheating in the motor windings..? As the battery voltage drops the motor turns slower and in so doing heats up...? In general electric motors can be designed to work in temperatures much higher than those which a Porsche starter motor might experience, thus I would hope that Porsche/Bosch knew what class of insulation the motor would require in any Porsche environment...?
In days gone by Fords ever had a rep as noisy starters, a lot of which was down to changes in the ring gear dimensions around the flywheel and folk fitting what they thought was the correct starter with the wrong number of teeth to match the flywheel... butchering both flywheel and starter teeth in time.... I think when replacing starters it might be worth while comparing shaft diameter and number of teeth on both the old and new starters...?
If poor starter performance was down to a poor earth lead betwixt chassis and engine, would that not throw up some spurious fault codes as a result...? Thinking voltage drop as the earth connection fails under the starter loading, causing similar voltage drops on sensors etc.etc.etc....?
Just thinking in type... :?:
Just some generalised thinking...... Perhaps the failures are as a result of the effect of lay up and lengthy cranking periods and on a battery with reducing voltage which can result to some degree of possible overheating in the motor windings..? As the battery voltage drops the motor turns slower and in so doing heats up...? In general electric motors can be designed to work in temperatures much higher than those which a Porsche starter motor might experience, thus I would hope that Porsche/Bosch knew what class of insulation the motor would require in any Porsche environment...?
In days gone by Fords ever had a rep as noisy starters, a lot of which was down to changes in the ring gear dimensions around the flywheel and folk fitting what they thought was the correct starter with the wrong number of teeth to match the flywheel... butchering both flywheel and starter teeth in time.... I think when replacing starters it might be worth while comparing shaft diameter and number of teeth on both the old and new starters...?
If poor starter performance was down to a poor earth lead betwixt chassis and engine, would that not throw up some spurious fault codes as a result...? Thinking voltage drop as the earth connection fails under the starter loading, causing similar voltage drops on sensors etc.etc.etc....?
Just thinking in type... :?:
stuttgartmetal
Magny-Cours
- Joined
- 23 Feb 2009
- Messages
- 2,519
Get it rebuilt.
Don't fall for the 996 replacement
There's a few reasons why they're not so good.
Rebuild will be far better
Get the back of the car up on decent stands and take your time.
If you need a special short spanner or socket then buy it.
It won't be impossible
Don't fall for the 996 replacement
There's a few reasons why they're not so good.
Rebuild will be far better
Get the back of the car up on decent stands and take your time.
If you need a special short spanner or socket then buy it.
It won't be impossible
stuttgartmetal said:
I have to say, that I was going to forego the core charge and keep and renovate the old motor to fit at a later date, especially since they are 1300.00 to buy!!
Like your attitude but I lack the courage or inclination these days
I have never worked on a Porsche newer than an SC, though in terms of cost when there are thought to be starter issues the earth strap seems about the cheapest place to start... of course a Porsche strap will cost a lot more than a car parts shop universal type, but then if you need to keep things "original" it`s only money... (-:
I appreciate that the earth strap may be difficult to get to and may have nothing to do with whatever issue is prevalent... However it should be possible to provide an alternative earth for test purposes in the hope of proving if the earth strap is at fault..?
Of course if you used a light bit of wire to bridge from a good bare metal point on the chassis to the engine, chances are it might burn like a fuse wire such are the possible currents involved. However using one out of a pair of cheap jump leads as can be bought from an auto shop, will do the trick.. Just be sure you have good bare metal connections on BOTH ends cleaning up a bolt head for clean connection purposes might do the trick.
If after the test things seem to have improved, then it may just be that either the strap of a connection either end is dirty/corroded or the strap it`s self may have in time begin to fail, after all it may be quite a few years old..? When cleaning the connection point to bare metal on the chassis side it is normal for both the threads of the bolt as well as the interface of bolt to washers to strap all to be part of the electrical connection process, and oft times corrosion can creep in to these all important areas. A quick clean of of the components points of contact with each other can do the trick. if paint is cleaned off the chassis to bare metal to ensure good contact, perhaps best to paint/grease over the whole area of the connection once it has been proven to be a good connection, the idea being to slow down the chance of corrosion creeping back in... :?:
I appreciate that the earth strap may be difficult to get to and may have nothing to do with whatever issue is prevalent... However it should be possible to provide an alternative earth for test purposes in the hope of proving if the earth strap is at fault..?
Of course if you used a light bit of wire to bridge from a good bare metal point on the chassis to the engine, chances are it might burn like a fuse wire such are the possible currents involved. However using one out of a pair of cheap jump leads as can be bought from an auto shop, will do the trick.. Just be sure you have good bare metal connections on BOTH ends cleaning up a bolt head for clean connection purposes might do the trick.
If after the test things seem to have improved, then it may just be that either the strap of a connection either end is dirty/corroded or the strap it`s self may have in time begin to fail, after all it may be quite a few years old..? When cleaning the connection point to bare metal on the chassis side it is normal for both the threads of the bolt as well as the interface of bolt to washers to strap all to be part of the electrical connection process, and oft times corrosion can creep in to these all important areas. A quick clean of of the components points of contact with each other can do the trick. if paint is cleaned off the chassis to bare metal to ensure good contact, perhaps best to paint/grease over the whole area of the connection once it has been proven to be a good connection, the idea being to slow down the chance of corrosion creeping back in... :?:
stuttgartmetal said:
:bye: Hey ho Stutsie! Hope you're keeping well.
I contemplated paying for a rebuild but it's the same price as buying a core exchange from ECP without the pain of the car laying up waiting for the refurb.
This is only the second time my 993 has let me down in 12 years, and the last time it was also a dicky starter motor so that can't be bad!
I won't even BEGIN to admit how many times my 996 has been on the naughty step in the last year.
decgraham
Albert Park
- Joined
- 17 Sep 2008
- Messages
- 1,664
I have had a starter motor problem a couple of times, all electrics working fine except no start. I put the battery on charge for an hour and hey presto it fires up without a problem. I tend not to use my car that much when the temperature goes above 30C here as I don´t want to cook the leathe. I do have a solar charger connected to the cigarette lighter but a boost from the battery charger seems to sort the problem. I have also found over the years that a battery only seems to last for a couple of years with the amount of use my car gets.
My starter is the original but it was serviced about 10 years ago. I have now got 108706 Kms on the clock or about 67500 Miles.
ATB
My starter is the original but it was serviced about 10 years ago. I have now got 108706 Kms on the clock or about 67500 Miles.
ATB
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