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mikeknivett
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Joined: 05 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated and the kind offer of a ride from Cheib.

One question what is a PTS colour?? Sorry if being thick.
 
  
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911TEL
Albert Park


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1512
Location: Inverness & Kazakhstan

2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeknivett wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated and the kind offer of a ride from Cheib.

One question what is a PTS colour?? Sorry if being thick.


PTS = Paint To Sample

Special order colour from factory..

Mostly to be found on the GT cars as they suit them better (IMHO)
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Normski298
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Joined: 23 Oct 2016
Posts: 58
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit of a thread revival, but this one is really interesting personally as I had also had my head turned by the 997.2 Turbo Manual at AUV.

Having had 993s for the past 6 years and now considering what else in the Pcar back catalogue I should experience, I have spent some time weighing up the pro's and cons of parting with my low mileage cherished 993 c4 and looking at a 997.2 GT3 or turbo manual.

Clearly the turbo is circa £40k cheaper than a GT3, but the thread comments are interesting about rarity/ potential future values:

Having worked in banking & the motor finance business, I'm well aware that "past performance is no reflection of future performance" when it comes to investing (cars as well...) and with prevailing headwinds of the Governments Road to Zero, who truly knows what future values of any car with an ICE will truly be (unless someone here posses a crystal ball?). I suspect in the next 10 - 20 years it will be extremely expensive to either buy fuel, tax a car, drive in a city (by that I mean significantly more than now) and who knows - maybe even impossible. But enough of the doom.......

I know GT3s are the go-to product by way of rarity & NA driver experience, but I would have thought that the .2 Turbo in manual would be an interesting rarity? Theres nowhere I can find which actually confirms production numbers, but given the .2 was a run-out update over a short period of time, it was during a financial crash, PDK was probably the choice of the majority and the relatively low amount for sale compared to any other model/ generation of 911, I'd speculate that there is a very very small amount of these in the UK?

So I would have thought that driving experience aside, a low mileage, .2 turbo manual with the ability to claim "last of the manual turbos" would be a good place to both enjoy the experience of driving and stick your hard-earned cash/ finance (either way its hard-earned in my view).

Purely my opinion - and probably because I'm wondering if it is just me that thinks this is possibly a bit of a unicorn car.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15768
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normski298 wrote:


............. I would have thought that the .2 Turbo in manual would be an interesting rarity? Theres nowhere I can find which actually confirms production numbers, but given the .2 was a run-out update over a short period of time, it was during a financial crash, PDK was probably the choice of the majority and the relatively low amount for sale compared to any other model/ generation of 911, I'd speculate that there is a very very small amount of these in the UK? .......



And you'd be right.

Less than 3,500 Gen2 Turbos were produced and a very small percentage of those were manuals. I'd be very surprised if there were 50 in the UK.

iirc you couldn't get a Gen2 'Turbo S' in anything other than PDK.
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Gazc2
Kyalami


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1948
Location: Perthshire


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`m not sure about the white manual linked in the start of this thread its a bit of a mixed bag spec wise for me, it has a techart kit (I think) no sports chrono and no sports seats so im not convinced this car has any more value in it compared to a better specced PDK long term, the prices of the Gen 2 cars are creeping down at the moment with a choice between the £60-75k mark which I do think are looking good value.
_________________
2007 997 Turbo & 924s in progress
1990 964 C2
1989 3.2 targa
1987 3.2 Cab
1986 3.3 Turbo
1986 944 2.5 (later fitted with a 2.7 after wife went scuba diving in a flood and popped a piston through the block)
 
  
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T8
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General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazc2 wrote:


..... the prices of the Gen 2 cars are creeping down at the moment with a choice between the £60-75k mark which I do think are looking good value.



Values are very mileage dependent. The white car at AUV is priced at the top end of this spread due to it having only 22k miles showing.
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Normski298
Trainee


Joined: 23 Oct 2016
Posts: 58
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazc2 wrote:
I`m not sure about the white manual linked in the start of this thread its a bit of a mixed bag spec wise for me, it has a techart kit (I think) no sports chrono and no sports seats so im not convinced this car has any more value in it compared to a better specced PDK long term, the prices of the Gen 2 cars are creeping down at the moment with a choice between the £60-75k mark which I do think are looking good value.


Good points - but if there are less than say, 100 RHD manuals in the UK, perfect spec Vs availability will be a challenge. I think the AUV car is a factory aerokit (something I would want to check before driving 4 hours to view it) and I agree - no sport chrono is a key missing option. It took me 3 attempts to find the 993 in a spec I ultimately desired at the price I wanted and went through: Manual but no variorum, variorum but no aircon or sports seats. Actually, I'd probably rather my c4 was a c2 but I settled as it ticked nearly all of the boxes: sub 50k mileage, hardback sports seat, varioram and aircon (for what its worth.

Sounds like I'm trying to convince myself its a good buy, but as I said earlier, its a really interesting debate as I personally have no desire to sink 70k - £80k of my hard earned cash into something that is readily available in many formats and that will continue to depreciate in line with most cars.

Not being a track person and instead spend money on a couple of Eurotrips every year and have the benefit of both Dartmoor and Exmoor either side of my front door, the 997.2 turbo Vs the GT3 Vs the GTS is an interesting one for me. I absolutely love the .2 GT3 and would happily sell a body part or one of my children to buy one and I have the means to do so (money, not means to sell a child!), but I kind of like the potential rarity of a manual .2 turbo - I'd dare to suggest it may be rarer than a .2 GT3 - who knows?

There are currently 103 997 turbos on PH; 34 are manual; only 1 .2 turbo (from a quick & dirty search). Autotrader has 3 997.2 turbo manuals for sale - 2 have 50k+ miles on them. Interestingly the other white one claims to be 1 of 53 in the UK.

Anyway, that's my lunch break gone.
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Diggermeister
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 453



PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normski298 wrote:
Not being a track person and instead spend money on a couple of Eurotrips every year
You could do both and do a track day at Spa or the Nurburgring. Laughing

Joking aside, turbo vs. GT3 are very different. For my money, there are very few cars for capable, competent and comfortable for a long road trip than a turbo.

As for rarity, that's not always an arbiter of future value. (See Austin Allegro Vanden Plas for details.) Best to buy cars to drive them.
 
  
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Gazc2
Kyalami


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1948
Location: Perthshire


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not a factory aerokit, front splitter and rear spoiler are aftermarket
_________________
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1990 964 C2
1989 3.2 targa
1987 3.2 Cab
1986 3.3 Turbo
1986 944 2.5 (later fitted with a 2.7 after wife went scuba diving in a flood and popped a piston through the block)
 



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Normski298
Trainee


Joined: 23 Oct 2016
Posts: 58
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggermeister wrote:
Normski298 wrote:
Not being a track person and instead spend money on a couple of Eurotrips every year
You could do both and do a track day at Spa or the Nurburgring. Laughing

Joking aside, turbo vs. GT3 are very different. For my money, there are very few cars for capable, competent and comfortable for a long road trip than a turbo.

As for rarity, that's not always an arbiter of future value. (See Austin Allegro Vanden Plas for details.) Best to buy cars to drive them.


Agreed. I was in Spa last month - bottled the track experience; maybe next time!

And I get your point around rarity - but at least the .2 turbo is a great car (I'm old enough to remember the allegro). I also have a Mercedes W202 c43 AMG - not many of them around these days, mainly because they have disintegrated through rust or they have been modified to death! But it's still a rare an interesting car for those in the know; and I kind of like that. Its not really appreciating - I didn't buy it to make any money. Lets face it, to many/ most people a 911 is a 911; they all look the same and are the same.

As already said, the one mentioned at the start of the thread probably isn't the ideal one - but its an interesting one and I'm really interested in what people think about its rarity & interest value more than "will it be worth the same as a 993 turbo in another 10 years time"
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Last edited by Normski298 on Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Normski298
Trainee


Joined: 23 Oct 2016
Posts: 58
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazc2 wrote:
Its not a factory aerokit, front splitter and rear spoiler are aftermarket


Ah!

Thanks - their advert is wrong then and it probably saves me considering when I can get to Hinkley anytime soon. So on that basis I think the saying is "I'm out...."
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maph
Monza


Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 174



PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 997.2 turbo manuals are rare, I think circa 50 sounds about right.

I was looking for one for well over a year (back in 2015/2016) and there was rarely one for sale and they would sell fast when the appeared. Like many other models of Porsche there are now more for sale than I have seen before. When I bought my S for example there was never more than 2 or 3 coupes for sale at any point, must be over 20 at the present.

As you have noticed the manuals are often low/ a bit marmite spec wise, and often higher mileage so you may have to wait a long time for the perfect spec.

Agreed that one at AUV is not a factory kit. I have the factory aero kit on my S and that is not it unfortunately.

Residual wise, has to be as good a bet as any other but who know what ICE car values will look like in 10yrs. I would still work on the basis of losing less money than other cars with one rather than making money Thumb
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