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stasis
Trainee


Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 83
Location: notts


PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i tried the same thing a couple of weeks ago, I gave up for two reasons, firstly its hard to work on a garage floor tightening the eccentrics without moving them out of adjustment as there is not enough room, to get both arms in. Second as proved by my local who ended up doing it, without rotating plates under the wheels and more importantly sliding plates that allow the wheels to properly move whilst adjusting the camber, the drag of the floor with the weight of car make it pretty impossible to adjust it. I ended up adjusting, moving the car back and fowards to allow it to settle, , repeat, repeat, in the end I was chasing my tail thought I had it spot on, only for the actual measurement on an optiflex was to show it was miles off.
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3586
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok folks - interesting process indeed.

Everything went quite smoothly in the end.

Following the principles used in setting up the Cup cars, the stages that the Cup manual suggests is rear camber first, followed by rear toe, followed by front camber then front toe. This is the sequence I followed.

Firstly a recap on the finer details of the setup - here is a close up of the home made swivel plates made from 2 pieces of perspex number plates on top of each other - very slippery and very necessary, without this you have little chance of making any meaningful adjustments TBH.



First off - check and set the camber. I used a digital angle gauge to make life a little easier.



Couple of considerations...... the reason that I ended up doing the whole alignment thing was a result of me shaping all 4 lower arms, shocks and lowered springs. The lowering of the suspension itself would have been reason enough but the arms I sourced were Meyle items and there have been hints that these can cause problems with geometry set ups.

Rear camber is adjusted by an eccentric bolt/washer combo on the inner lower suspension arm mounting. The arrangement on the rear means that the toe and camber need quite a bit of juggling since one affects the other. The Meyle arms clearly are slightly different to TRW (OEM) ones and the rear camber could not be set less than 1.4 degrees negative. Bit more than I set out for but it's not extreme and if it becomes an issue I'll swap the inner bush for an eccentric one. The toe setting could not be set to zero due to this so I am contemplating putting some adjustable toe arms together to get to zero rear toe as opposed to the 0.5 degree toe in it's currently maxed at.

Front camber is relatively easy to change using the elongated top mount holes.

As a starting point I set the front camber to 1.4 degrees of negative camber.



It's important the set the steering and fix it at the straight ahead position before front toe is attempted. I used a wooden block to facilitate this.

Quite an involved process doing the toe adjustments and small adjustments is the way to go measuring the distance form the wheel rim front and rear to the cords on each wheel. End result - 0.03 degrees of toe in on each front wheel
thumbsup .

All data entered in here - really helps with the process!.

https://www.robrobinette.com/DIYAlignmentCalculator.htm

So - for now this is pretty much as good as it gets for now.

Just looking at some bits to make up some rose jointed adjustable rear to arms to take the rear toe out to zero (be less than £100 for both sides).

Hugely satisfying if not a little intense.
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7268
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup from me , id not even herd of this before untill you posted and im actually impressed ... and that dont happen very often.
 
  
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3586
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE - All done after a recheck just to make sure everything is settled.



Home-brew adjustable rear toe arms in place.



Results - I had another week after this screen shot and the front settings are now identical.



Was it worth it? - For me it was a good learning exercise and I understand suspension geometry much better than I did before.

Time for a cold beer........
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7268
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
UPDATE - All done after a recheck just to make sure everything is settled.


Was it worth it? - For me it was a good learning exercise and I understand suspension geometry much better than I did before.

Time for a cold beer........


Excellent job , you did it along with sorting out problems along the way , you should be working in a garage .. wasted talent doing any other job Smile
 
  
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ultegra
Monza


Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 201
Location: Chandler's Ford, Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the same method on my BMWs.

The only tip I would offer is to use a product called SHOCK LEADER rather than paracord. It's a sort of semi-elastic fishing line that stays really taught.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WARBIRD-SHOCK-LEADER-50lb-YELLOW-LINE-BEACHCASTER-MULTIPLIER-REELS-AND-RIGS-/161907932104?hash=item25b276fbc8:g:H6IAAOSwAKxWYZHq
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Chris_in_the_UK
Estoril


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 3586
Location: Harrogate


PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ultegra wrote:
I use the same method on my BMWs.

The only tip I would offer is to use a product called SHOCK LEADER rather than paracord. It's a sort of semi-elastic fishing line that stays really taught.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WARBIRD-SHOCK-LEADER-50lb-YELLOW-LINE-BEACHCASTER-MULTIPLIER-REELS-AND-RIGS-/161907932104?hash=item25b276fbc8:g:H6IAAOSwAKxWYZHq


thumbsup

Just ordered some - thanks for the heads up!.
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 990
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, I like people who think outside the box and have a good engineering mind & put to use their abilities.

You should pit your ability by then putting it onto a Hunter afterwards. If it transpires you can get it near bob on, you could be onto a business idea for DIY enthusiasts Thumb
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'13 Cayman
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BHZ661
Barcelona


Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1332
Location: Milton Keynes


PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent , fantastic work, thumbsup
 
  
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 990
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_in_the_UK wrote:
UPDATE - All done after a recheck just to make sure everything is settled.



Home-brew adjustable rear toe arms in place.



Results - I had another week after this screen shot and the front settings are now identical.



Was it worth it? - For me it was a good learning exercise and I understand suspension geometry much better than I did before.

Time for a cold beer........


That looks like a Hereford & Worcester tan colour fire jacket hanging up in the garage Chris. See us ex-fireman spot these things.
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Kbald
Monza


Joined: 11 May 2018
Posts: 184
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the old thread reserction but have been trying to get my set up right after replacing my inner track rods so I can test what else if anything needs replacing on the suspension before I shell out for a full geo.

Having read through this thread it seems a lot more accurate than my simple axle stand and string method as I don't know if the rears are toed in or not. I also then set it up using a Gunson trakrite too but the steering wheel is a few degrees off despite getting in spec readings on the tool.

So my question is how did you ensure the poles were square and set up correctly to make the measurements to start with? I assume you measure and match the centre of the pole off a centre point on the car, if so were there specific points? Also was the cord then the same length to ensure it was all square or is there more too it than this? Thanks in advance for any help.
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Kbald
Monza


Joined: 11 May 2018
Posts: 184
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worked things through myself with a bit of Google research. Got some heavy duty 25 mm off conduit and some of the shock leader plus my axle stands and got to work. Measure the back to be the same exactly from the centre of the rear wheels and the same from the front wheels to get a perfect rectangle round the car. Then measured up and put them all in the website and now I have a straight tracking car. I couldn't for the life of me get the rear camber or toe adjustment bolts undone so that's a job for another day.

I've attached a screen shot of my results so far. Front is within spec rear needs a small tweak on the nearside I think unless anyone can advise otherwise? Thanks
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