Gen 2 not intended as a scare story and is just my Car

Glad your car is back. Congrats. Did you learn what caused the issues? I havent read all 24 pages so if the explanation is in here and you can share a page number i'll go and read

Chinese cats installed by previous owner from memory. Overrun ingested some of the material from the cats.
For years I used to think that manufacturers who claim warranty was void on new cars if you swapped out the exhaust as a con job. After Phils shennanigans, I'm happy to concede there is merit in the arguement

FZP said:

Chinese cats installed by previous owner from memory. Overrun ingested some of the material from the cats.
For years I used to think that manufacturers who claim warranty was void on new cars if you swapped out the exhaust as a con job. After Phils shennanigans, I'm happy to concede there is merit in the arguement

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Yikes! OK Thanks. I dont much like any cats!

Jcx said:

FZP said:

Chinese cats installed by previous owner from memory. Overrun ingested some of the material from the cats.
For years I used to think that manufacturers who claim warranty was void on new cars if you swapped out the exhaust as a con job. After Phils shennanigans, I'm happy to concede there is merit in the arguement

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Yikes! OK Thanks. I dont much like any cats!

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Me neither. I'll never have that problem. Whipped em out sharpish when I installed full Kline system....

FZP said:

Chinese cats installed by previous owner from memory. Overrun ingested some of the material from the cats.
For years I used to think that manufacturers who claim warranty was void on new cars if you swapped out the exhaust as a con job. After Phils shennanigans, I'm happy to concede there is merit in the arguement

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So let me get this straight. Your exhaust system goes negative pressure (vacuum) on over run?? :dont know:

And if so, surely we'll all be sucking carbon (super abrasive) deposits in continually.

Not trying to discredit anyone here, just trying to understand :?

Phil 997 said:

Gents , I have finally some updates about my car. All you gen2 owners will be relieved to hear that the issue is not related to the gen2 engine in any way. After dropping the engine and opening up the engine Baz and his team found some very unusual debris in the engine and after analysing the material they found it was from the material used to make cats, so they pulled the 200cell cats from the car and found one had broken up. This metal had then on overrun been sucked back up into the engine and caused the damage .
This would explain how nobody except the best of the best was able to identify the issue. So finally and big thanks to Baz and the Hartech team :worship: :worship: we now know what caused the issue.
It seems the pistons are ok but the liners are damaged the crank and other parts seem to be ok, but I will get a full report soon along with recommended options for rebuild once Baz has had a chance to consider what would be the best for my car .
It seems that the car was before I brought it originally fitted with a custom made in the fareast sports exhaust, when this was fitted it was ridiculously loud and unplesant to listen to, So it was then fitted with cargraphic valved boxes and centre muffler delete kit, but the 200 cell cats from the original fareast custom job were left fitted and its these that have failed and caused the issue. So an interesting and unusual problem that I doubt many of us would have considered has happened , and another lesson learnt about using cheap nasty made in the far east parts on our cars.
I havent got any recourse on this as you would expect when dealing with the Fareast other than to learn from it and when refitting new 200cell cats make sure they come from a reputable source, As the rest of the exhaust is Cargraphic it makes sense to use Cargraphic 200 cell cats on the rebuild.
:grin: I will keep you all updated :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

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Phil's update confirming route cause from a while back

Thanks!

Yes, thanks FZP :thumb:

Proof it made it to The porsche museum :thumb:

Insert comments about parking angle here

Just a brief catch up here on the subject of after market add-ons.

One of the reports I have been writing recently for eventual public consumption has been about how dyno's measure output. To keep it as brief as possible - when a car accelerates its mass the air flow is different as the rate of acceleration alters.

At one extreme - if the engine was run on a rolling road (or engine dyno) at fixed revs (say 5000 rpm) and running at those revs until it allows the initial unsteady gas flow to settle down the output will increase to a higher figure which can then be recorded and added to the next run at say 5,200 rpm (and so on).

The larger the inlets and exhaust areas and flow - the lower the output will be on the initial power reading but the higher it will be some seconds later.


Testing an engine this way will show higher output if the add-ons increase flow areas and volumes.


However - when accelerating - the engine is always in a dynamic state of change and under these conditions smaller inlet and exhaust areas usually result in higher overall acceleration times because there is less unsteady gas flow to settle down.


Trying to compute the recorded results to indicate the differences is a black art which can be prone to adjustments to make some results look better than others.


The only real test should be how fast the car accelerates through the gears between speed 1 and 2.


This difference accounts for a lot of the claims for various products providing higher outputs that then don't materialise if the method of testing by the operative accounts for pure performance results rather than just impressive ones.


Manufacturers of after market products will often exploit this difference for obvious reasons while good re-map specialists will conduct tests to reveal the true output in real life acceleration situations.


Also - when you change gear you have to accelerate through to peak revs before changing up and so on. The performance that results in the fastest acceleration is the one that has the highest average torque the rear wheels experience during those rev bands (which are bigger in low gears and reduce as you change up).


The fastest cars will have the greatest average torque from the engine between those rev bands. Add-ons that reduce torque at lower revs but increase it nearer peak revs will show a higher peak BHP to advertise (because BHP is proportional to revs*torque) but if the reduction in torque at the lower end of the rev band within those gear change revs is lower - the car may be no faster or even slower (although it may "feel faster" if it is noisier or if there is a surge of torque increase with revs that humans can feel.


Interestingly - if you increase the capacity of a standard engine it usually increases the torque where you need it in the mid range while still making more at the top end - but not as much - but increasing the average torque between the gear change revs and making the car faster and easier to drive.


This is why we have successfully made oversized versions of our M96/7 engines and hoped to do so with the 9A1 Gen 2 engines but found it much more difficult and incurring more technical issues to solve and overcome before we could offer it to the public and this is why Phil unfortunately missed out on this occasion.

More to follow for public scrutiny in a few weeks time.


Baz

Great write-up Baz......I hadnt previously understood the variation in BHP while the engine is in different states. The way you have described it is easily understood and now sounds obvious (but wasnt to me previously )

Its great to have these technical insights on the forum.....

Thanks Baz for explaining that :thumb: It sounds so much better than "Phil why didn't you have the Hartech 4ltr conversion " 'Because Baz said I couldn't " :grin: :grin:

It will make very interesting reading the subject of mods and do they or dont they produce results is debated so often on here and other places. as you say in certain conditions it might but thats no good it your driving style or needs doesn't produce those conditions.

G2 said:

Proof it made it to The porsche museum :thumb:

Insert comments about parking angle here

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In my defence the car is parked straight the space is on the squ . anyone who's ever been to the museum will understand that nothing is straight there :grin: :grin: phew did I manage to explain my way out of that one :grin: :grin:

Nearly. They painted the arrows after you parked though :floor:

G2 said:

Nearly. They painted the arrows after you parked though :floor:

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:floor: :floor: :floor: ah , are those directional arrows , I thought it was just decorative :grin: :grin: :grin: