patpending
Albert Park
- Joined
- 11 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 1,669
mark pearce said:squelch said:Captain Lockheed said:What is the legal position here?
If a dealer D takes a car on SOR from seller S and then sells it to buyer B. Takes B's money, but doesn't pay seller S, who owns the car?
As usual it all depends on the T's&C's in the contract signed by the owner / seller of the car and the dealer (although I think often an SOR sale is pretty much just done on a verbal agreement / handshake). The law states that you cannot sell something that is not yours to sell so, in the absence of a written agreement relinquishing ownership of the vehicle to the dealer, and since the original owner has been given no consideration (payment) for his car, he still owns it. Thus, he would have the right to go and repossess / retrieve it (if he knew where it was) and the unfortunate buyer would have to seek recourse / refund from the dealer. And as we all know, the V5 is not proof of ownership, so just because the dealer has sent off the V5 it does not give the new "owner" legal possession of the vehicle. It would probably be a ball ache getting the V5 back from DVLA though, but provided there is enough evidence they ought to support.
I think if I ever used the SOR route, I would retain the spare key until I'd been paid, possibly put a tracker in the car and if the Gmund scenario happened, report to the police that it'd been stolen (by Gmund).
My understanding, from a barrister albeit 25 years ago is/ was
when you give a car dealer a car on sale or return, you are giving the dealer "title' to the vehicle
if he doesn't pay you, you can only sue him for the debt,
the new owner of the vehicle, has clean title to it having bought it from a recognised car dealer.
so the original owner cannot for example take the car from the new owner as he has given his title to the goods the scum bag car dealer
That's not true - dealers have no more rights than anyone else when it comes to property title. The chap on here still owns that car. The dealer and the new buyer have the big problem.
Same as trying to sell a lease car that does not belong to you. The garage has no title to the car - buyer beware
Sale or Return is self explanatory in layman's terms and it's the property owner who calls the shots.
A dealer should issue the funds to the seller before releasing the sellers property or changing or altering documentation relating to the sellers property.
If it was mine I'd report it as stolen by persons unknown if it is not where it should be or not handed back upon demand.