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thedarkknight
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject: PCP, part exchange and apr Reply with quote

What sort of deals are Porsche financial services offering. Does anyone know how they calculate the trade in value for a car? Just feeling fleeced with a recent offer!
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spongebob squarepants
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

APR with VW finance will be more than you can get yourself. Just find the best deal out there (should be circa 5-6% APR) unless things have changed recently, and ask if they can match it, if not simply go elsewhere for the finance Thumb

Not sure on the trade in, but OPC will be notoriously low !
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G2
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Joined: 26 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OPC = Really poor trade-in values based on assuming the customer wanting something new and unlikely to have done homework...or using the mystique of finance deals to gouge more profit.......any other industry it would affect business and repeat custom..

Lots of cars traded into OPC are remarketed through other dealers. A bit of legwork can save quite a bit, but OPC dealers play on the apathy of the customer.

Disclaimer: all marques use the same tactics and porsche is an aspirational brand with more customers than cars it appears Surprised
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PerrinAybara
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at PCP for a Cayenne and was monumentally disappointed not by the APR rate, but by the end-of-term valuation. You can compare the APR with other finance sources, but I couldn't help but be amazed at how much depreciation they were factoring in. Smelled of a total con.

So now I need to assemble the cash for a new Cayenne and a new 992. Sadly the latter's going to have to wait a bit. Mad
 
  
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DRZ911
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: PCP, part exchange and apr Reply with quote

thedarkknight wrote:
Just feeling fleeced with a recent offer!

Same here. Mad
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kan300
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our recent dealings have been:

If trading in a Porsche - they seem to check what is already for sale on their used OPC network and base their px figure on this.

On PCP's balloons seem to be about 50% of sale price.

APR - initialy it was 7.2% APR managed to get them down to 6.8%. Best non-porsche finance was 6.5% APR
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thedarkknight
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx. All very useful responses. Initial APR also 7.2% here. So how does the calculation work? Say my vehicle has been valued at £80k - minus the remaining PCP would leave around £20k how can it I only be worth around £11k as trade in ???
If I payed off the PCP and sold the vehicle back to Porsche would I not be £20k better off. There doesn’t appear to be any transparency in how the figures are derived. This is what I am trying to understand.
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Magic919
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Joined: 05 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to assume they’ll want at least £8k profit when they retail your PX. And they might be a bit low on their estimate of the selling price. Sell it elsewhere if you want to do better.
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G2
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedarkknight wrote:
Thx. All very useful responses. Initial APR also 7.2% here. So how does the calculation work? Say my vehicle has been valued at £80k - minus the remaining PCP would leave around £20k how can it I only be worth around £11k as trade in ???
If I payed off the PCP and sold the vehicle back to Porsche would I not be £20k better off. There doesn’t appear to be any transparency in how the figures are derived. This is what I am trying to understand.


Assuming your contract does not have a Guarantteed future Value...”the value” attributed to the car is a made up number that the business manager can manipulate, no hard rule on it.

Basically they are saying you only have £11k equity in the car/agreement but again this is open to manipulation.

Couple of things that impact the agreement :-
- the dealer margin (if you bought used) and the interest are weighted in the early part of the agreement (this means percentage of payments that is interest is a lot higher in the early years) so never a good idea to terminate in the first half of an agreement as a general rule.

This calculator might help you see the mechanics of the breakdown of the agreement.

https://www.themoneycalculator.com/vehicle-finance/calculators/pcp-personal-contract-purchase-calculator/

Others will have better insight, I just try to help with tools to work out a reasonable level of detail in what’s occurring.

I only ever use HP with a balloon but the principles are the same. Finance is never perfect but it has its uses.

Sorry to point it out but what makes you think the car value would look the same if you ask them to buy the car after paying the PCP off? They then would not be making profit on the PCP termination that has hidden profit in it when a dealer does it? Usually means a lower trade in value is offered or they say no thanks.

And never bother discussing with the salesman. It’s the person with the expensive calculator that works the deals and has the power to change interest rates or move terms. OPCs call them business managers.
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RobIpswichUK
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Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if Jamie Garside (forum name: Jamie) is still an active contributor or site partner (haven't heard from him for a while), but he was a whizz at getting much better rates and could deal with any Trader OPC or not. Think he used to work for Eurolease (not sure whether that is a big firm or his own - no affiliation or prior personal experience, just a great forum member who historically tried to help get other forum members finance deals).
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spongebob squarepants
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Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try Tom Pattinson at Capital Car Finance, I got 5.1% APR, and they are still offering APR from 4.9% on their website for cars up to 5 years old. Thumb
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Robertb
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobIpswichUK wrote:
Not sure if Jamie Garside (forum name: Jamie) is still an active contributor or site partner (haven't heard from him for a while), but he was a whizz at getting much better rates and could deal with any Trader OPC or not. Think he used to work for Eurolease (not sure whether that is a big firm or his own - no affiliation or prior personal experience, just a great forum member who historically tried to help get other forum members finance deals).


+1 for Jamie. I don’t think he is active here any more but I’ve dealt with him not too long ago.
https://eurolease-uk.com/vehicle-finance/
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vroomvroom
Montreal


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 532
Location: Wilmslow


PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedarkknight wrote:
Thx. All very useful responses. Initial APR also 7.2% here. So how does the calculation work? Say my vehicle has been valued at £80k - minus the remaining PCP would leave around £20k how can it I only be worth around £11k as trade in ???
If I payed off the PCP and sold the vehicle back to Porsche would I not be £20k better off. There doesn’t appear to be any transparency in how the figures are derived. This is what I am trying to understand.


Sell your car for £80k (easy peasy), £9k more in the deal for you, this would be the same as halving the APR.
 
  
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Mad Mark911
Silverstone


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 111
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if you have a car that they want to retail on their (or the wider groups forecourt) - you are going to save money if you part ex it yourself. Period.
Their buying margins are huge - their policy is that they need to have more than 10% profit in a second hand sale or no deal. Low part exchange values are a key part of their business model - which also relies on (as others have said) your apathy, lack of time and relative wealth.

The finance elements only have a very small margin of movement and the business managers only make their substantial bonuses if they stick to what VW Financial Services put out. But the margins on new Porsche's are huge. There are two good reasons why they are the most profitable car maker (per vehicle) on the planet and that's the strength of brand and market desire.

Personally I think anyone who buys such an expensive vehicle on finance is begging to have their trousers pulled down and be rogered by the greedy dealers. Because as my dear old Dad said to me once: "If you can't afford to buy it in cash, then you can't afford it"!
 
  
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M&MD&D
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mad Mark911 wrote:
Even if you have a car that they want to retail on their (or the wider groups forecourt) - you are going to save money if you part ex it yourself. Period.
Their buying margins are huge - their policy is that they need to have more than 10% profit in a second hand sale or no deal. Low part exchange values are a key part of their business model - which also relies on (as others have said) your apathy, lack of time and relative wealth.

The finance elements only have a very small margin of movement and the business managers only make their substantial bonuses if they stick to what VW Financial Services put out. But the margins on new Porsche's are huge. There are two good reasons why they are the most profitable car maker (per vehicle) on the planet and that's the strength of brand and market desire.

Personally I think anyone who buys such an expensive vehicle on finance is begging to have their trousers pulled down and be rogered by the greedy dealers. Because as my dear old Dad said to me once: "If you can't afford to buy it in cash, then you can't afford it"!


My bolding.

It reminds me what a dear friend of mine -- god rest her -- used to say "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it honey."

She was a New Yorker -- and an upper east side New Yorker at that -- so money was no object.

For mere mortals, it's a bit different Very Happy
 
  
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Mad Mark911
Silverstone


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M&MD&D wrote:

It reminds me what a dear friend of mine -- god rest her -- used to say "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it honey."

She was a New Yorker -- and an upper east side New Yorker at that -- so money was no object.

For mere mortals, it's a bit different Very Happy


5th Avenue etc? Then if she was older - she was likely to be from "old money". Smile
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vroomvroom
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The valuation you got on your trade in, might have been a future date value, my understanding is that if you order a 992 today, deliveries will not be until the end of the year.
 
  
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easternjets
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try your bank, my partner has been looking for a cheap finance deal and was offered 3.3% by the bank. This equates to paying £850 on top of £10k borrowed over 5 yrs, not bad compared to 10.7% at Bristol Street Motors who wouldn't honour the 0% deal they said they were offering, as the old adage goes if it looks too good to be true it is!
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991.2GTS
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mad Mark911 wrote:


Personally I think anyone who buys such an expensive vehicle on finance is begging to have their trousers pulled down and be rogered by the greedy dealers. Because as my dear old Dad said to me once: "If you can't afford to buy it in cash, then you can't afford it"!


I've seen endless discussions over on PH, where some suggest that even those that have the money use finance because they don't want to tie up the cash in a car when it can be earning more money elsewhere.

But I'm just not buying that argument. Not unless you are taking significant risk with your money. I don't know anywhere where you can make more than 6-7% return on your money with minimal risk. Certainly not in the bank, the stock market and no longer in property.
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Mad Mark911
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

991.2GTS wrote:

I've seen endless discussions over on PH, where some suggest that even those that have the money use finance because they don't want to tie up the cash in a car when it can be earning more money elsewhere.

But I'm just not buying that argument. Not unless you are taking significant risk with your money. I don't know anywhere where you can make more than 6-7% return on your money with minimal risk. Certainly not in the bank, the stock market and no longer in property.


Couldn't agree more! worship

Easternjets makes a good argument on the bank loans, but they are unlikely to loan you even half of the value of a new 992.
To borrow £55K over 5 years at 6.3% (a typical APR from a dealer) adds £9K to the price. So if a 992 S with a decent spec is £110K and you put £55K down in cash and £55K on finance - repayments are £1.07K per month for 60 months. Total cost = £119K .... nooo
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