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johnt993997
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Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 45
Location: Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire border nr. Aylesbury / Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:35 pm    Post subject: 1ST TIMER EURO ROAD TRIP: ADVICE PLEASE NAPOLEON, SWISS PASS Reply with quote

Hi all,
Me and a few friends are planning a euro road trip, and its coming up faster than a Turbo S on an autobahn!
We are leaving May 21st, so just over 5 weeks away.
I'm 'route-master' so, pressure is on! Fairly happy with most of the route, but in a bit of a muddle about the middle bit. Any advice from you lovely people would be grand.

[url][img]https://thumbsnap.com/s/vHNmcwns.jpg[/img]|https://thumbsnap.com/vHNmcwns[/url]
____
Day 1: Tunnel to Lyon - Mainly 'slog' but with a fun bit above dijon.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Eurotunnel+Calais+Terminal,+62231+Coquelles,+France/19+Rue+de+Verdun,+52120+Lafert%C3%A9-sur-Aube,+France/13+Route+de+la+Vall%C3%A9e+de+l'Aube,+21520+Gevrolles,+France/21+Grande+Rue,+21520+Louesme,+France/7+Route+de+Dijon,+21290+Saint-Broing-les-Moines,+France/Eglise+Saint+Jean+Baptiste,+Grande+Rue,+21120+Moloy,+France/1+Rue+de+Dijon,+21380+Saussy,+France/Dock+Ouest,+39+Rue+des+Docks,+69009+Lyon,+France/@48.3845879,2.7092697,7.41z/data=!4m50!4m49!1m5!1m1!1s0x47dc3ee7fd5ba9cd:0xd28c7f4ccb700ec0!2m2!1d1.8123025!2d50.9352533!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ec5101c8bb6ba5:0x3e918980695c0e4d!2m2!1d4.7816853!2d48.0992942!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ec5337cbd16c1d:0x310f2b5000c9effe!2m2!1d4.7813782!2d47.9888374!1m5!1m1!1s0x47edae9b820b5859:0x797e06f573c707e1!2m2!1d4.7586419!2d47.8972932!1m5!1m1!1s0x47eda07be72a6ab9:0x5f796b503545744b!2m2!1d4.8413549!2d47.6952862!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ed712012ec14dd:0x7ac15bd9a1bb84a8!2m2!1d4.9334862!2d47.5403319!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ed7ae5cef499e5:0xbb7f93b01258deb1!2m2!1d4.9609121!2d47.4674959!1m5!1m1!1s0x47f4eb408708dd59:0x6a69f35fb2b2b151!2m2!1d4.811326!2d45.7865128!3e0
____

Day 2: Route Napoleon (via Harry's Garage Countach route)

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dock+Ouest,+39+Rue+des+Docks,+69009+Lyon,+France/Gap,+05000,+France/44.424016,6.296226/Le+Vernet,+France/Mus%C3%A9e+des+Citro%C3%ABn+-+Citromuseum,+Route+de,+04120+Castellane,+France/Escragnolles,+06460,+France/16+Avenue+Durante,+06000+Nice,+France/@44.4359866,5.9004604,9.05z/data=!4m39!4m38!1m5!1m1!1s0x47f4eb408708dd59:0x6a69f35fb2b2b151!2m2!1d4.811326!2d45.7865128!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cb3f78d8a213d5:0x40819a5fd97a760!2m2!1d6.079758!2d44.559638!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cb7e3ddfe89afb:0xbd34f8af4f64fdcd!2m2!1d6.390085!2d44.2758139!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cc0c6df98ae5a7:0xed896901f150d1e1!2m2!1d6.4993214!2d43.8570113!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cc22cfe0ec2a33:0xbd7b9bef705ba0f0!2m2!1d6.783065!2d43.730907!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cdd0087a687cc9:0x212fef8991025c5e!2m2!1d7.2629764!2d43.7032314!3e0
____

Day 3: Nice to Lake Como (we do have an extention to this planned as an option, taking in some M-carlo rally stages early on).

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/16+Avenue+Durante,+06000+Nice,+France/Finale+Ligure,+17024+Province+of+Savona,+Italy/Distributore+di+carburante+-+TotalErg/Via+Regina+Levante,+18,+22015+Gravedona+CO,+Italy/@45.6599754,8.7738114,9.95z/data=!4m26!4m25!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cdd0087a687cc9:0x212fef8991025c5e!2m2!1d7.2629764!2d43.7032314!1m5!1m1!1s0x12d2fa2f779a7221:0xf64560ab17a5f16!2m2!1d8.3416211!2d44.1689028!1m5!1m1!1s0x478694c8807e8475:0x826c6965f66c0f4!2m2!1d9.0525573!2d45.5544114!1m5!1m1!1s0x47846aa77d9e9bcd:0x7307982764c93514!2m2!1d9.3126461!2d46.1490598!3e0
____

Day 4: Lake Como to Andermatt - THIS IS WHERE IT GETS SKETCHY - hoping to take in a few alpine passes, but hard to plan as google thinks all the roads are closed!

????????????????

____

Day 5: Andermatt to Strasbourg - most of this is sorted, via german derestricted autobahn, but I'd like to hit a few alpine passes in the morning as well!

____

Day 6: Strasbourg to Tunnel, via spa and some more derestricted autobahn.

____

oh, and nearly forgot the most important bit the cars...
997.1C2s // 997.2 GT3 (lucky b@st@rd) // Aston v8 vantage // New style Mustang 5.0 V8 with a 'sure to annoy the Swiss' loud exhaust.

____

Any advice, in particular on day 4+first half of 5 much appreciated!

Ta.
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pzero
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Austria.

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1429602
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mr pg
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Como to Andermatt isn't far. We're doing that sort of route in July, but going via the San Bernadino Pass towards Chur and then the Klausenpass. I assume you're doing the loop. I would recommend the Nufenen Pass in that area. It's the less well known, and quieter of the roads.
Any of the passes could still be affected by snow in May, so you'll have to check nearer the time and possibly consider an alternative.
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For any tips on Eurotrips, check out Jackals-Forge:

http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/

I don't know why folk love Napoleon so much, I just found it too busy and a bit boring. Much prefer heading down the D1075 which runs parallel to it.

Don't forget the obligatory stop off at Reims circuit - it's mesmerising and en-route.




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mazza
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Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 963
Location: London


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good work on organising your first euro road trip!! I always feel you never really appreciate your car until you’ve done one of these, and having done several, both as a large group, and on my own, I will list some of my favourite sections...

One thing I will start with is I tend to avoid France, combination of expensive tolls, police hot for English cars, and generally it’s boring until you get to the mountains.

So here is my suggestion for a 3-4 day trip.

Depending on what time you leave UK, I’ll normally try to go from Calais, Belgium and then stop first night around Luxembourg (probably the cheapest petrol in western Europe).

Onto Stuttgart if you want or visit Porsche museum, if not, then towards Munich to sample some unlimited stretches of autobahn, and then drive towards Innsbruck, Austria. Some great places to stay in mountains (I spent a couple of nights in Sport Hotel Igls) and some decent roads to explore and nice sight seeing such as Stubaier Glacier.

From Innsbruck worth heading towards Stelvio, not everyone rates it as it can be busy, but definitely one to tick off.

Then head through Switzerland, Susstenpass which is bang in the centre of Switzerland is a great stretch of road, then I tend to head south, stay in Martigny, and leave early next morning (before sunrise) to drive towards Grand St Bernard’s pass, Aosta, then Petit St. Bernard (which is probably my favourite road).

From there normally along lake Geneva and then up towards the Black Forest, and then back via Luxembourg again and then back to Calais.

Hope that helps, wherever you end up, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it!!
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Johnd52
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do insist on the Route Napoleon and want to escape the caravans and motorhomes, turn off before Grasse on the D2 towards col du Venice, And then south towards Nice. Brilliant road that is usually quiet.
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johnt993997
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Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 45
Location: Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire border nr. Aylesbury / Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers all, going to look into some of these options ASAP, have to say I'm surprised at the lack of love for route napoleon, it's always been on my bucket list (blame EVO)... I think it's one I'm going to have to try to be sure! But I'll also look at some of the parallel roads you mentioned. Reims circuit is already on the list too!

We're hoping to get another one in next Yr and will probably do Austria then. Its hard to get that far across after doing the route napoleon.

Much appreciated!
_________________
997.1 C2S #blackandgold (hartech'd)
E46 M3 manual coupe
Lotus Exige
Porsche 993 c2 manual coupe (should never have sold!)
AMG E55 (W210) // BMW E46 330i touring // BMW E36 328i touring (first propper car!) // Various dull cars before!
 
  
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johnt993997
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Joined: 13 Jan 2019
Posts: 45
Location: Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire border nr. Aylesbury / Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@johnd52 - i'm struggling to find your little tip, are you sure its the D2? Cheers!
___
CORRECTION - just found it! sorry
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997.1 C2S #blackandgold (hartech'd)
E46 M3 manual coupe
Lotus Exige
Porsche 993 c2 manual coupe (should never have sold!)
AMG E55 (W210) // BMW E46 330i touring // BMW E36 328i touring (first propper car!) // Various dull cars before!
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Posts: 16217
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may have been down to the fact there were a few snail trails and when you're booting it past 8 cars in one go it gets a bit tedious when they're all blasting their horns at you and waving fists. nooo
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Johnd52
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, route Napoleon is a superb road, but it does not take many caravans, motorhomes, touring bikes, scenery gawpers or even pedestrians, to slow everything to a crawl on some days. And lets just say that overtaking is generally not appreciated.

Drive it to experience it, but it may disappoint from a performance car perspective. There are fabulous equivalents off the main route.
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angry
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you booked somewhere to stay at Lyon?
Its a big city and if you hit it at the wrong time (rush hour) its a total nightmare at the end of a long journey.

Macon is much easier and there are very nice restaurants and hotels on the river Thumb

http://www.booking.com/Share-oGBkRo
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scarletboarder
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you get on?

I've just done Chur to Andermatt via the Oberalp pass and St Gotthard tunnel on Sat 25th then Andermatt to Mennaggio (Como) via the San Bernadino and Julia passes on Sun 26th in the middle of an extended trip. 997.1 C2S and Vantage V8.
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johnt993997
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Location: Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire border nr. Aylesbury / Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all the OP here, just a quick recap of what we ended up doing!

KIV we did all of this mid-late May, which I think benefited us on traffic, but the downside was for some Swiss passes not being open (see later)

Day 1 - Home (Cars coming from Surrey and Midlands) to Lyon, via Reims circuit.
We ended up just going the quickest route due to a super early start and a late few nights before hand.
We had planned a fun bit in the middle going cross country on the D396 then down to just above Dijon, see the below link:
We stayed at Dock Ouest in Lyon, which had underground parking and did a good job, although the ramp down was tight on splitters.
TOP TIP, if you're vehicles are even remotely low, pack a couple of bits of wooden plank!

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Eurotunnel+Calais+Terminal,+62231+Coquelles,+France/19+Rue+de+Verdun,+52120+Lafert%C3%A9-sur-Aube,+France/13+Route+de+la+Vall%C3%A9e+de+l'Aube,+21520+Gevrolles,+France/21+Grande+Rue,+21520+Louesme,+France/7+Route+de+Dijon,+21290+Saint-Broing-les-Moines,+France/Eglise+Saint+Jean+Baptiste,+Grande+Rue,+21120+Moloy,+France/1+Rue+de+Dijon,+21380+Saussy,+France/Lyon,+France/@48.0252621,4.7143725,12.63z/data=!4m50!4m49!1m5!1m1!1s0x47dc3ee7fd5ba9cd:0xd28c7f4ccb700ec0!2m2!1d1.8123025!2d50.9352533!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ec5101c8bb6ba5:0x3e918980695c0e4d!2m2!1d4.7816853!2d48.0992942!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ec5337cbd16c1d:0x310f2b5000c9effe!2m2!1d4.7813782!2d47.9888374!1m5!1m1!1s0x47edae9b820b5859:0x797e06f573c707e1!2m2!1d4.7586419!2d47.8972932!1m5!1m1!1s0x47eda07be72a6ab9:0x5f796b503545744b!2m2!1d4.8413549!2d47.6952862!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ed712012ec14dd:0x7ac15bd9a1bb84a8!2m2!1d4.9334862!2d47.5403319!1m5!1m1!1s0x47ed7ae5cef499e5:0xbb7f93b01258deb1!2m2!1d4.9609121!2d47.4674959!1m5!1m1!1s0x47f4ea516ae88797:0x408ab2ae4bb21f0!2m2!1d4.835659!2d45.764043!3e0

Day 2 - Lyon to Nice, via route napoleon, mostly using Harry's Garage route (where he drives a Countach).
Wow. I was a bit worried after various people said it wasn't that special. Its being a hero road I've never driven, thanks to EVO mag, and I was worried meeting my hero might, they might end up to be a boring dullard. It was AMAZING, and everyone put it 1st or joint first out of the whole trip. That said, as aforementioned we probably benefited from less traffic than usual ( a Wednesday, not yet in-season) and the fact all vehicles were comfortably fast enough to overtake quickly when needed.

We found hotels with parking hard to find in Nice, in hindsight we could have looked further out. Special thanks to the french mini dog owner who put glass behind our tyres as she disagreed that the Hotel had authority to allow us to park where we were. Luckily we realised, no damage done.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/45.7279663,4.8990178/Gap,+05000,+France/44.424016,6.296226/Le+Vernet,+France/Mus%C3%A9e+des+Citro%C3%ABn+-+Citromuseum,+Route+de,+04120+Castellane,+France/Escragnolles,+06460,+France/43.7046532,7.2589745/@44.7303578,5.5434385,8.57z/data=!4m29!4m28!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cb3f78d8a213d5:0x40819a5fd97a760!2m2!1d6.079758!2d44.559638!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cb7e3ddfe89afb:0xbd34f8af4f64fdcd!2m2!1d6.390085!2d44.2758139!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cc0c6df98ae5a7:0xed896901f150d1e1!2m2!1d6.4993214!2d43.8570113!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cc22cfe0ec2a33:0xbd7b9bef705ba0f0!2m2!1d6.783065!2d43.730907!1m0!3e0

Day 3 - Nice to Lake Como.
More of a cruise day, down the 'best motorway (dual carriageway) in the world' (according to Harry's garage) which was great fun along the coast. Then head up for a stop at the amazing Alfa Romeo museum outside Milan (very easy to get to, and reasonably priced) then up to Como.
The hotel on the north side of lake como (hotel regina) was crackin!
We did have plans to do some monte carlo rally roads at the start of the day, but we probably had the booziest night in Nice, so had a bit of extra sleep instead!

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/16+Avenue+Durante,+06000+Nice,+France/Finale+Ligure,+17024+Province+of+Savona,+Italy/Distributore+di+carburante+-+TotalErg/Via+Regina+Levante,+18,+22015+Gravedona+CO,+Italy/@45.2113993,7.6703721,8z/data=!4m26!4m25!1m5!1m1!1s0x12cdd0087a687cc9:0x212fef8991025c5e!2m2!1d7.2629764!2d43.7032314!1m5!1m1!1s0x12d2fa2f779a7221:0xf64560ab17a5f16!2m2!1d8.3416211!2d44.1689028!1m5!1m1!1s0x478694c8807e8475:0x826c6965f66c0f4!2m2!1d9.0525573!2d45.5544114!1m5!1m1!1s0x47846aa77d9e9bcd:0x7307982764c93514!2m2!1d9.3126461!2d46.1490598!3e0

Day 4:

Como to Andermatt - due to limited passes being open this day had to be re-planned a fair bit, but worked really well.
The Maloja pass not far out of Como was a highlight. Stunning. Some local in a 1.4 Golf estate gave us a good run for our money too!
The Oberalp pass, in particular the road down into Andermatt was AMAZING. Probably the second best all week.

There was the option of an additional pass near the end (1 way, drive up, drive back down) but we didn't take it as were happy we'd done enough by then. This is on the map below though.

We stayed at Radisson blue in Andermatt, which was splendid!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Via+Regina+Levante,+18,+22015+Gravedona+CO,+Italy/Maloja-Pass,+Bregaglia,+Switzerland/Lenzerheide,+7078+Vaz%2FObervaz,+Switzerland/Lukmanierpass,+Switzerland/Radisson+Blu+Hotel+Reussen,+Andermatt,+B%C3%A4rengasse+1,+6490+Andermatt,+Switzerland/@46.4108502,8.8640013,10z/data=!4m32!4m31!1m5!1m1!1s0x47846aa77d9e9bcd:0x7307982764c93514!2m2!1d9.3126461!2d46.1490598!1m5!1m1!1s0x47847de1b61b7d29:0xfad3cbdd16b48bb4!2m2!1d9.6824999!2d46.3983026!1m5!1m1!1s0x47849582ff6cc379:0xeb4a8369dccfc3b5!2m2!1d9.5577484!2d46.7260018!1m5!1m1!1s0x478511b4fdd2bb2b:0x41418ffa8fb8fdd9!2m2!1d8.8014082!2d46.5622633!1m5!1m1!1s0x4785718de1357511:0x9077a8334b96687a!2m2!1d8.5913093!2d46.6399113!3e0

Day 5:
Bit of a bodged route due to Andermatt loop being closed, so gave very limited options;
we picked up 3-4 lesser known swiss passes. Lots of fun but tended to be a bit narrower, and it was wet in places.
The road out of Andermatt was amazing, worth warming the oil up before you leave the hotel!
we did:
Ibergeregg Pass
Sattelegg Pass
Albis Pass

Then we headed for the unlimited autobahn before diving off into Strasbourg for the night. The autobahn was a bit busy but 2 of us still saw 160+ which was fun.

Day 6 - Final day was dull, we had planned a route via Spa, but didn't use it, just decided to do the shortest route back to the Tunnel as we were zonked!

Overall comments:
- This route was a bit relentless - another day would have helped spread it out nicely! We were 8 blokes, most cars had 1 main driver and a secondary insured driver who did maybe 20-30% of the driving. Most days we were in the car for most of the day and it became a running joke that we'd end up in the cars at 6pm-ish, in traffic near the hotel, gasping for a beer!
That said we were a bit lazy in the mornings, leaving between 9.30-11.30am. We didn't stop that much.
We did consider dropping the Route Napoleon and just heading for more of the alps, but in hindsight I'm very glad we didn't. Some genuine life long driving memories there!
- Time of year is critical. We missed the andermatt loop, as it wasn't open yet, which was a shame, but as aforementioned the benefit was less traffic elsewhere.
- If anyone want's more details let me know.
- We were lucky enough to borrow some high quality (£1000+ total) walkie talkies, which were incredibly helpful! They made overtakes far easier and safer, and ensured traffic lights were less stressful, as well as just setting off in sync.

Cheers for all the advice, and if you're thinking of a similar trip, GO FOR IT! Plan well, and its a great experience.
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Marky911
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Joined: 04 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one John!
Thanks for the post trip round up. Good info.

We are heading out later in the summer and like you I’ve always had the Route Napoleon down as a “must do”, despite the lack of love for it on here.

Bad news for us is we are doing it in August and on a Saturday! So that day may need to be a 6am start I think. I’m happy to abandon it and hop onto a different road if needs be, but I’ll see how we get on on the day.

I’ve been gathering snippets of info from threads like this and YouTube for a few years now, since I was last over there. The Harry’s garage Countach vid definitely rang true with me too. Then Mr JWW for the red rock road and also Portofino and Tuscany.

Anyway, cheers. Of course someone has to say it, where are the pics? Very Happy
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johnt993997
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Joined: 13 Jan 2019
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Location: Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire border nr. Aylesbury / Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photo!
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997.1 C2S #blackandgold (hartech'd)
E46 M3 manual coupe
Lotus Exige
Porsche 993 c2 manual coupe (should never have sold!)
AMG E55 (W210) // BMW E46 330i touring // BMW E36 328i touring (first propper car!) // Various dull cars before!
 



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T8
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love your Reg No. Very Happy

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johnt993997
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Location: Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire border nr. Aylesbury / Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, cheers, yep makes me chuckle!
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E46 M3 manual coupe
Lotus Exige
Porsche 993 c2 manual coupe (should never have sold!)
AMG E55 (W210) // BMW E46 330i touring // BMW E36 328i touring (first propper car!) // Various dull cars before!
 
  
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scarletboarder
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Location: Swansea


PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great round up of your trip. The last section of the Oberalp Pass was very good. We ran through the St Gothhard tunnel then to Airolo for the night. Will go later next time and do the Furka, Susten and Grimsel Passes.
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