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Drew1209
Monza


Joined: 31 Aug 2016
Posts: 172



PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Rust treatment/prevention Reply with quote

I have removed the rear arch liners and black corner trims near arch liners to check for corrosion, passenger side needs a bit attention but not bad overall.

Am I better removing any corrosion with wire brush in a drill or is there a better way of doing it ? Also some of the old coating along the seam of the sill has come away to approx the opening of the door, what is this best treated with, it does look like rust has set in.

There is 2 grommets visible per side when I removed the arch liners, I had a look inside but nothing noticeable. Should this be treated with wax oil ?

I’ve not been to the front end so I’ll likely have more questions but any pointers at all would be helpful.
 
  
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toddy2
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 348
Location: Dorset


PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd been interested knowing this too. Part way though this may help:

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=128526
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7202
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop Corn

I'm planning on attacking mine with a wire brush on the angle grinder and then some rust neutraliser as a starting point. I haven't thought much past that yet.

MC
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2971


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did this.

Wire wheel in a grinder, a drill mounted one isn't man enough.

Remove any loose underseal and rust, all along the sills and anywhere else on the underbody. Any loose underseal will just trap moisture.

Use rust converter (I use phosphoric acid gel, most wonder rust products are acid based, some are phosphoric acid).

Then your choice of paint / coating (I use por15).

I sloshed waxoil over it before refitting the plastic.

Pop all the cavity bungs off and liberally spray cavity wax inside.

Eugh:


Wire wheel:


Acid:


Por15:

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Last edited by wasz on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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Jay.
Montreal


Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 576
Location: Brize Norton


PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sand paper -> wire toothbrush -> stiff wire brush -> flappy wheel -> wire brush drill attachment -> grinder


Depending on how serious it is, you may have to move along the list. I found a stiff wire brush got most of mine off and I used a flappy wheel/wire brush drill for the larger/stubborn areas.

I treated the now 'clean' area with Rust Bullet https://rustbulletuk.com/en/ which claims to dehydrate the metal/rust and then cover it with an inpenetrable layer. It's pretty easy stuff to use so I'll use it again in the future
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2971


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS theres a few other places to look for rust....

chassis just behind front subframe mounts.

Top of rear arches inside arch

Jacking points

various seams around the underbody
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 464
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found poly discs on a grinder, or a poly wheel on a drill to be great at fast rust, paint and underseal removal.

They seem to be far faster at removing the paint and rust. They leave the metal underneath in a much better condition than equivalent wire brush attachments, which seem to polish the rusty surface and can scratch and damage at the same time. This doesn't happen with the poly discs.

The only negative is they are a bit cumbersome. You can get a wide array of wire brush attachments for the drill, which get into the nooks and crannies more easily.
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1134



PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
Use rust converter (I use phosphoric acid gel, most wonder rust products are acid based, some are phosphoric acid).


A long time since I've used rust removal products, are they much of a muchness nowadays? There used to be Tannic (e.g. Fertan) or Phosphoric acid and I used to use Kurust as it was a bit gel like and stuck well and also have a high zinc content.

Views?
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2971


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phosphoric acid is self limiting as it forms a hard ferrous phosphate layer, the blue black colour which will resist further rusting.

Citric and hydrochloric acids will continue to eat good metal, and don't form a layer and parts will rust again if exposed.

Usually rust converter products are phosphoric, eater products other acid.

Check the ingredients / chemicals data sheets, there might be other stuff in there e.g zinc which you may like to pay extra for.

The brands and products change every few years so it's hard to make a comparison, but body shops have been using phosphoric for years.
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steve1
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 343


2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you have any problems taking off the corner trim pieces.
ie broken or striped threads of fixing screws.
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Drew1209
Monza


Joined: 31 Aug 2016
Posts: 172



PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up cutting the corner pieces off as some of the screws the heads were done. I’ll source new corner pieces or adapt what I have.

Regarding the treatment, what treatment is recommended for treating the rust prior to applying the por15
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2971


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve1 wrote:
Did you have any problems taking off the corner trim pieces.
ie broken or striped threads of fixing screws.


Just drill the heads off and replace with stainless and new stainless screw tab things.
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maldren
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 1134



PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wasz
Do you know what the 'tab things' are called, I'd like to buy some stainless ones but I don't know what to search for on line?

Spire clips, I've found them but they don't seem to do stainless, probably because they're spring steel.

thanks
Mike
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 464
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ebay, Stainless U clips or Chimney nuts

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clip-U-nut-spring-nuts-M5-M6-clips-fairing-panel-speed-chimney-stainless-steel/253126993841?var=552211725907&hash=item3aef8b67b1:m:m_irjufB_pFlzHentenwYDQ

There are plenty of results

Drew1209 - You need to degrease the area, then use POR15 metal prep which I think might convert the rust (similar to the acid converters) and also etches any other paint so it will accept the POR15. If the area is exposed to UV light, the recommendation is to top coat the POR15.
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Drew1209
Monza


Joined: 31 Aug 2016
Posts: 172



PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve just started this at the weekend. So far I’ve ground as much of the rust off that I can get too (not to bad to be fair) I’ve coated the rust areas with Vactan and I’ve a tin of silver por15 sitting to go over.

Anyone know if I can just cover the Vactan directly with the por15, the Vactan has a primer built into the rust protection I believe. I did wonder if it was pointless using the rust converter as the instructions for por15 state that it can go directly onto rusted surfaces, if using the Vactan with inbuilt primer how can the por15 do its job correctly as it’s not in direct contact with the rusted area.

I’ve done inside the sills with dinitrol clear cavity wax (1litre per sill) I assume I would be better with a different coating for covering the arches before refitting the arch liners ?
 
  
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Griffter
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 343



PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe rather than being a chemical rust treatment, POR 15 works by sealing the rust from the air, preventing further degradation. Therefore it should be fine over the primer as long as it adheres. Its coverage and propensity to avoid tiny air pockets is better than normal paint. The issue, if there is one, will be any air pockets or moisture trapped between the primer that you have already applied and the surface.
When you buy a POR 15 “kit” you get rust converter and surface cleaner included. The trick with POR 15 is to get total coverage and a good “seal”. In my experience once cured it’s often tougher than the metal it’s painted on!
 
  
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Paynewright
Monza


Joined: 17 Apr 2018
Posts: 204
Location: Nr Lutterworth Leics


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top tip for POR15 - wear gloves. It has the same stuff in it as superglue and take a long time to come off!!

Also get all your painting completed as quickly as possible as once POR opened the tin has a tendancy to go off. Thats why they sell it in little pots!

Ian
 
  
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Paynewright
Monza


Joined: 17 Apr 2018
Posts: 204
Location: Nr Lutterworth Leics


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raptor stone chip spray is pretty good too - developed for truck beds.
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2971


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Por15 cures with moisture, thats the reaction it has, doesn't evaporate a solvent like paint does. Try using it on a damp day vs a dry day!

So POR15 "sucks" moisture out of the metal for its reaction. This halts further corrosion.

I applied phosphoric acid to convert rust, then washed off, dried and then applied POR15. Hard as rock, I'd say better to have nothing between the two.

If your rust converter primer is a "system" best to use thier top cpat.
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Wh1t3Kn1ght
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2018
Posts: 214


2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been very happy with the Bilt Hamber products and for my 944 restoration job I've just purchased some of their coatings for chassis restoration, do a search on here and you will find some 993 restoration examples using these products -

Deox Gel - Non-toxic rust removal gel
Electrox - zinc based primer
Dynax Seam - Fast drying, brushable, flexible anti-corrosion seam sealer
Dynax S50 - Extreme duty anti-corrosion wax for cavities, voids and long term protection

I plan on putting either some Wurth Stone Guard or 3M Schultz on top of the Electrox and the the Dynax S50 over the top of that.
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