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iOlly
Newbie


Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 33



PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Options for Anti Roll Bars (my rear snapped...) Reply with quote

Sooooo..... This happened Very Happy. Early gen 1 with mo30. Torn between going for the reliable (and heavy, and solid) H&Rs or trying the hollow Eibachs. It doesn't look like the Eibachs will offer much over the mo30.




Has anyone got an adjustable rear anti roll bar kicking around? Or a view on what's best to replace it with and where to get one from?

Ideally, I'd like a high quality adjustable rear and replace the front in the future (if required).
 
  
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Martin996RSR
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 316



PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OE Anti roll bars are cheap and easy to come by on Ebay. The hollow ones can be made to be adjustable by heating and squashing the ends and drilling more holes. Budget £40 for the bar and the squashing at a local engineering shop.

If budget doesn't matter to you then go for the Eibach. Your hollow bar will only have failed due to deep corrosion. I wouldn't expect the Eibach to fail within the next 20 years even if never garaged. A solid bar is just unnecessary weight.

It would be well worth looking up the rates of the Eibach bar vs the oem one so that you can have some assurance that you're not going to shift the handling balance beyond what you want to acheive. If you go to hard on the rear then you'll end up with an oversteary car, which you may or may not desire.
 
  
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996 Simon
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Sep 2015
Posts: 109
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same happened to mine at the start of the year, I went for the H&R.
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iOlly
Newbie


Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 33



PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks both for the feedback! 1 vs 1 on Eibach vs. H&R.

Having had a factory one rot through I'm less tempted. Even though I like the price and engineering element (and my friends/local specialist can easily do that for me). I'll keep an eye on eBay and see if any pop up soonish.

I like the quality of H&R things I've dealt with in the past, and my car has H&R springs on at the mo. But I dislike the idea of adding more weight + the H&R bars seem a lot bigger and stiffer.

Conversely, the Eibach bars appear to offer no upgrade other than the ability to adjust them marginally vs the mo30 bar.

I don't mind oversteer, but I don't want it to snap and I'll hopefully move to Ohlins in 2020 (with a few more bits sorted first)

Any more views/thoughts? Does the above change anything?

I've added a thread for my 911 here too - http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1473707#1473707
 
  
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NedHan79
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 441



PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done just what Martin said. I “squeezed” the ends of the bar to make it adjustable. Haven’t much time behind the wheel to give an answer as to how good it is. But, it was free. I wouldn’t rule out a solid bar, it’d be cheap and still be made adjustable.

All comes down to budget I suppose
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Martin996RSR
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 316



PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget the prime purpose of the ARB - to tune handling balance. It's not to control body roll, that's just a side effect. The problem with aftermarket ARBs is that people think stiffer is better and adjustable must be better still. In reality these very stiff ARBs may or may not give the handling balance you want (assuming they are sympathetic to your springs, dampers, and geometry) but they will give you a flat cornering attitude. The price of this is a p1ss poor ride and poor cornering stability on bumpy roads because when the loaded wheel (ouside wheel) hits a pothole the very stiff arb transmits the bump to the inner wheel and the whole axles briefly suffers a massive decline in grip. Not great on a British road. If you want to control body roll without this crappy side effect then you should go for stiffer springs and dampers.

The stock handling balance of a 996 is understeer. You shouldn't discount using a softer front ARB to increase front end grip whilst staying with a stock rear bar.
 
  
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MaxA
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1497
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd replace the rear bar with an OE item and have a good poke around your suspension to check for other wear, old and torn bushes and corrosion. You may need your budget for some other updates.
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Teffers
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 115
Location: West Mids


PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How on earth did you manage that?
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snb993
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 318



PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very surprised that has happened too eh!

Having discussed ARB's with CG last Summer, I had H&R ones fitted at the same time that they carried out a full geo (since I had just had the coffin arms changed and this was a great time to do this). I wanted less body roll and we discussed the pros and cons of the various options. I'm equally a fan of Eibach but was happy to take their guidance on this - after quite a bit of discussion, we agreed that H&R's would be the way forward for mine. Peculiarly, I can't remember the physical weight of the bars ever being mentioned...only their different effects. In perspective, the turbo weighs something like 1500KG so I'm not sure that I would find an extra few grammes (over a standard or another make of bar) just above the ground would be very noticeable ?

They are adjustable but until I had tried them for a bit, Peter suggested that they were set in the middle for the timebeing. Having now completed 3,000 road miles (a mixture of Autobahns, Austrian Passes, general stuff and 2 track days including LM Bugatti), I have only gone up one 'notch' on the rear bar and am very happy indeed with the overall change

Previously, it carried a lot of negative camber and had gentle 'roll on oversteer'. This made it easy to predict when aiming for a corner and I was very happy with it - it had been that way for several years and I enjoyed it. Having then spent some time in friends' various McLarens, it highlighted this roll and also how 'heavy' and solid the car felt

It now has (at C&G's recommendation), less negative camber (from memory, it's now the same as a 3RS) and much less body roll - in fact, I can't tell that there is any … upsides are that the car feels as if it has been on a massive diet, more agile, more comfortable/relaxed on bumpy B roads and motorways


Granted, I have no experience of Eibach ARB's and can't comment on which is 'better', but I can say that I am very happy with my H&R's - the combination of both the change in geo and the bars has transformed mine Thumb

HTH
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996T - Cobalt blue, K24's, GT2 I/C's, Techart SSK, Manthey KWv3, H&R ARB's, RS engine mounts, Europipe, GT3RS 6 pots, 997T discs/RS29's all round etc
964 C4 - GP white, 993 C4 gearbox/front diff, Wayne remap, Bilstein B6's / H&R springs, polybushed, Cup 1's, RS SSK, gutted cat etc
993C4 - sold
928S4 - sold
 
  
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Stotty
Monza


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 162
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running a H&R adjustable rear bar with a M030 front bar. H&R is on it's middle setting. Previously on standard ARB's F&R. Rest of the suspension is Koni sports shocks, H&R -30 springs, with most of the other supension components replaced over the past 2 years. I'm also running X74 alignmenmt.

Handling balance feels perfect for road use.

The ARB's were the last parts to be changed, and made quite a significant difference to the handling - sharper steering response, less turn in understeer. It feels much better in long, fast corners, particualrly on turn in, where there's much less latteral weight transfer across the rear. (I've also got Rennline SS engine mounts, and I think they contribute to this as well).

I think the rear bar was c.£180 delivered from Germany - couldn't find anything in the UK or 2nd hand.
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2000 996, C2, manual, arctic/metropole, Koni shocks, H&R -30 springs, H&R ARB's, Rennline SS engine mounts, cup wheel, 170k miles. 2018 Touareg RLine Plus
 
  
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iOlly
Newbie


Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 33



PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teffers wrote:
How on earth did you manage that?


Not through driving it! So hopefully, am still on the Teflon-approved list.

Looks like it had rusted inside out Sad.

Sotty, that's what I am thinking/hopeful to do. I can only find single rears in the states and front and rears here. PM'd to ask for your German supplier. No second hand OGs I can find on various forums or eBay. Stock or mo30 so think this will be the best route. Leave the mo30 front, fit the rear and then look to upgrade the links and front bushes soonish.

Thanks all for feedback and thoughts! Any more for any more?
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2916


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bush removes the powder coat through movement and then holds water so it rots out a hollow ARB. Happened to me on other cars.
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kas750
Reims


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4431
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ARB on my boxster rotted out and I replaced with a used but as new standard bar from Douglas valley and it was buttons to buy.
 
  
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iOlly
Newbie


Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 33



PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Massive thanks to Stotty, ordered this: https://www.cartuningpoint.de/stabilisatoren/porsche/911-996/3-4-carrera/199709-200109/8696/h-r-stabilisator-stabi-hinterachse-hinten-blau-verstellbar-33510ha-33510ha-k.html

I'll run the rear H&R adjustable and stick with the front mo30. And I'll look at some sexy droplinks and new bushes for the front soonish.

Other suspension components look good but shocks are OG so I either need some Konis or save up and Ohlin.
 
  
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Stotty
Monza


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 162
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problems Olly, hope you like it when it’s fitted.

I have the Koni sports kit on mine. Koni shocks and H&R springs. Would have liked it another 10mm lower, but that’s the only criticism I can think of 6 months in. Great value at around £1k.
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2000 996, C2, manual, arctic/metropole, Koni shocks, H&R -30 springs, H&R ARB's, Rennline SS engine mounts, cup wheel, 170k miles. 2018 Touareg RLine Plus
 
  
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iOlly
Newbie


Joined: 01 Jan 2019
Posts: 33



PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turned up today, thanks again Stotty!



I'll update on it's fitting and how I find it on my build thread: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1475812#1475812
 
  
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