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Ultra Low Emission Zone

stuttgartmetal said:
You can see smog now.

You could see the smog very vividly 20 years ago if you worked in a tall building in Croydon. It is just much, much worse now; but it has been a problem for far longer than people have officially cared about it. Why did nobody care about it then : the pan-European fixation with eliminating CO2 emissions above all else pushed governments to set tax to encourage low CO2 vehicles - specifically diesels - and nobody stopped to consider the consequences of a massive increase in the amount of diesel exhausts on the breathable air in densely populated areas.

They were all too busy not saving the planet (as Europe doesn't actually produce a drastic proportion of global CO2 to begin with) to stop and consider saving the lungs of their own people. But it wasn't and isn't a purely UK issue - it is basically all of Western Europe. And while this was all going on, nobody stopped to consider that you couldn't sell diesel private cars to the Americans because they couldn't be made to pass the legacy of 1970s smog legislation. Until they tried fiddling the tests. And got caught. Then people noticed.
 
This is brilliant news for London as something has to be done and its fairly easy to make a change.

What's most important is TFL are phasing out their own smelly buses and the old black London cabs are being replaced by electric one's - seeing many more now on the streets.

I've checked and my 997 GT3, 1967 Alfa, TVR Chimaera and Mini cooper S are all fine but my smelly RR Sport isn't. This seems fair to me - I just wished they'd started it a decade ago but instead the Labour numpties (unbelievably!) promoted diesels!

:nooo:
 
My 2001 3.4 C4 is exempt... checked today...
 
London ULEZ

kicks in today apparently. I can understand how older diesels are bad for health etc. but...does anyone actually know just how polluting older petrol cars (like 964, 993 etc.) are?

Equally, how much more polluting are older cars? I think anything more than 40 years old is allowed in regardless and is exempt from both Congestion and ULEZ charges...might be time to start browsing pistonheads!
 
Disco said:
stuttgartmetal said:
You can see smog now.

You could see the smog very vividly 20 years ago if you worked in a tall building in Croydon. It is just much, much worse now; but it has been a problem for far longer than people have officially cared about it. Why did nobody care about it then : the pan-European fixation with eliminating CO2 emissions above all else pushed governments to set tax to encourage low CO2 vehicles - specifically diesels - and nobody stopped to consider the consequences of a massive increase in the amount of diesel exhausts on the breathable air in densely populated areas.

They were all too busy not saving the planet (as Europe doesn't actually produce a drastic proportion of global CO2 to begin with) to stop and consider saving the lungs of their own people. But it wasn't and isn't a purely UK issue - it is basically all of Western Europe. And while this was all going on, nobody stopped to consider that you couldn't sell diesel private cars to the Americans because they couldn't be made to pass the legacy of 1970s smog legislation. Until they tried fiddling the tests. And got caught. Then people noticed.

Thing is, C02 as an issue has not gone away... and diesels do produce a lot less C02, and with modern engines, less NOx and particulates than the older ones. Not to mention lower fuel consumption so less demand for the stuff to be dug up, refined and distributed in the first place.

It seems a shame that the baby has gone out with the bathwater on that front, due to the manufacturers' cheating.

Also, vehicles emit particulates regardless of means of propulsion... brakes, tyres, component wear etc.

I would be genuinely astonished if my 2014 Merc 250 Cdi produced more emissions than my 2003 996, yet I can drive my 996 in the ULEZ.
 
My Porker is a 3.8 which is exempt however my 1000cc Motorbike isn't :frustrated:
 
Madness I have subsequently learnt if for argument say you went to the theatre on the Saturday evening and you stayed in within the zone past midnight tha5 would be 2 x ULEX charges.
 
My Porsche (3.4l) fails, the Merc passes (5.4l), but I drive into town maybe twice a year so the charge really doesn't affect me - unless I forget to pay it.

Also, given the 10,000 people who die in London per year of pollution related ailments the charge is, frankly, not high enough.

The crazy thing is that they exempted black cabs- all of which bar the new electric ones belch soot everywhere.

Banning all IC black cabs is the logical step, but I suspect too politically difficult to execute.
 
Diesel black cabs are being phased out ....... Many black cab owners have invested a considerable amount of money in their cab to be able to make a "living" ...... if the government were to give a financial incentive for them to stop driving a polluting vehicle plus paying the going rate for their cab I am sure things would change more quickly ........ but just to blanket ban them without adequate compensation and incentives to go green would be beyond the pale.
 
All black cab owners have been subsidised by the taxpayer for their entire career, driving on roads maintained by taxes paid by others.

Given the incredible resistance to taking payments in any form other than cash, you have to suspect that paying their own taxes has been something that cab drivers prefer to do electively.

= I don't think cabbies have a leg to stand on here.

Anyway, the financial incentive of not paying £12.50 per day was considered to be too harsh, so they'll continue to blast soot all over the centre of town.
 
All black cab owners have been subsidised by the taxpayer for their entire career, driving on roads maintained by taxes paid by others.

How do you come to that strange conclusion?

Cabbies pay their road tax like any other vehicle on the road ...... they also have to pay for the licence that allows them to ply for hire ....... also they have to pay for their medicals and they also have to pay for their yearly overhaul of the cab to make sure it is road worthy ....... they don't get their fuel VAT free ...... in fact it is mostly pay .... pay ..... pay and it certainly is not subsidised by other road users or the taxpayer.


:nooo:
 
madalaa said:
All black cab owners have been subsidised by the taxpayer for their entire career, driving on roads maintained by taxes paid by others.

How do you come to that strange conclusion?

Cabbies pay their road tax like any other vehicle on the road ...... they also have to pay for the licence that allows them to ply for hire ....... also they have to pay for their medicals and they also have to pay for their yearly overhaul of the cab to make sure it is road worthy ....... they don't get their fuel VAT free ...... in fact it is mostly pay .... pay ..... pay and it certainly is not subsidised by other road users or the taxpayer.


:nooo:

But still Black Cab drivers in London have resisted moving with the times and invested in clean vehicle when typically each Cab is 30 times more polluting than other passenger cars

https://www.independent.co.uk/envir...ution-london-research-true-icct-a8688141.html

The manner in which politics and trade unions have kept these polluting black cabs on the roads is just as bad as the VW diesel gate scandal

Some of the most common models of London's world-famous black cabs are emitting up to 30 times as much pollution as personal cars the same age, research has found.

Measurements of nitrogen oxide (NOx), particulate matter and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from over 100,000 vehicles in London have revealed the 'disproportionate impact of black cabs on London's streets", The Real Urban Emissions (True) initiative report said.
 
Unfortunately things can't change overnight ....... change is on the way and you will see more electric cabs on the roads ........ and as I said if there was a decent scrappage scheme offered that did not leave the cab owner out of pocket it could happen a lot quicker ....... but I see no reason why a cab owner should be left out of pocket after spending a considerable sum buying his cab in the first place.

I am still perplexed as to what subsidies black cab owners get from the taxpayer or other road users ...... :dont know:
 
madalaa said:
...... I see no reason why a cab owner should be left out of pocket after spending a considerable sum buying his cab in the first place.

I think many people who bought pre 2016 diesel cars feel exactly the same way.

MC
 

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