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RossJ
Newbie


Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: 0W40 or 5W40? Reply with quote

Hi All,

I have a 997.1 C4S that’s done ~62k miles and I’m curious to know what the best oil grade is that I should be using?

The car’s still covered by Porsche warranty and is being serviced at my local OPC, hence choices are limited to 0W40 and 5W40 based on what’s in the manual and the approved oil list I’ve been sent by Porsche.

The folks at the OPC only use 0W40 and were a bit surprised that I’d think of putting anything else in the car, hence the question.

The internet (being the cacophony of voices that it can sometimes be) seems to suggest that if I use anything anything other than 10W50 (as apparently recommended by Hartech) my engine is sure to explode/get scored bores, but also that if I use 5W40 there’s more wear at lower temperatures as the engine’s warming up, although other specialists (Paragon Porsche, Revolution Porsche and Precision Porsche to name the ones I found online) seem to recommend 5W40.

Any ideas?

Cheers
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6761
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5/40 .

I work at one of those garages so a bit biased i guess .

Above 50K and we tend to switch to 5/40 .
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GMG
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 374
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mobil 1 0w40 in my newly rebuilt engine...
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15263
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As DeMort says 5W40 up to about 70k then consider swapping to 10w50 but TBH if your happy at 5w40 thats better than the brown water the OPC want to use .
Dont forget when your talking to the OPC they are now only fitters theres very little proper time served knowledge there . they just change things that are broken they cant fix a broken part like an indie could try and do. So I am not surprised you got a look of surprise from them as their little computer won't tell them how to do that Floor Floor Floor
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RossJ
Newbie


Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers chaps, appreciate the advice! The guy at the OPC did tell me that they only recommend 0W40 because they have a literal vat of the stuff and seemingly no-one typically questions the oil that goes into their cars so that’s all they use. Guess they also service newer cars for the most part.

So, the next question is, if 5W40 is good, then what 5W40 do I use? The Porsche approved list (that I have to choose from) has probably a hundred different variants from myriad manufacturers and I’ve no clue what makes one 5W40 different from another 5W40?

I can post the list if it helps, just it’s massive.
 
  
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tgdesign
Monza


Joined: 28 Apr 2016
Posts: 190
Location: Birmingham

2006 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Hartec Reply with quote

If it was me I would use what the guys a Hartec recommended, Top engine Bulder who have done a lot of research and testing on the 997.1 motor .They know a great deal about Porsche motors.
 
  
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kurlykris
Indianapolis


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2438
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Hartec Reply with quote

tgdesign wrote:
If it was me I would use what the guys a Hartec recommended, Top engine Bulder who have done a lot of research and testing on the 997.1 motor .They know a great deal about Porsche motors.


Millers NanoDrive CFS NT+, I use 5w40 in the Boxster @60K and 10w50 in the 996 @109K Thumb
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Porschekit
Österreich


Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 915
Location: North East UK


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my 997.1 C4S I was using Mobil 0W40 up to around 60k miles and it was consuming a little bit of oil, say one third of a litre every 1000 miles, which is well within tolerances.

Since switching to Millers 5W40 I am currently at 66k miles with very little oil usage at all, so something is working well.... Thumb
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15263
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also use Millers Nano NTplus

the best place to buy is Opie Oil the often have 10% and 15% discount codes if you register with them . so you should be able to get 10ltrs for close to £100


https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-115238-millers-oils-nanodrive-cfs-5w-40-nt-full-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

also its worth changing oil every 1 year or 10k miles as a risk reducing maintenance schedule Thumb
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boardingnath997
Trainee


Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 76



PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Mobil 3000 5w-40. I provided the oil to OPC at my latest service. I've found oil consumption has nearly halved since switching to this oil from the standard Mobil 1 0w-40.
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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 899
Location: London


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above Millers NT+ preferably 10W50, if not 5W40
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diverzeusy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 1019
Location: Doncaster UK


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basic rule as I see it is
New car or low mileage = factory tight tolerances/clearance in the moving parts so a 'thin' oil is great 0/40 etc
Older car 60,000+ miles the tolerances and clearances are now larger due to use, so a 'thicker' oil protects better due to the more worn engine, and to be clear I'm not suggesting a 60k mile car is worn out, far from it but tolerances are more.
OPC recommend what's in the book but they also deal with mainly newer lower mileage cars
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16369
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's only thicker when it's cold. Once up to temp. 0w 40 and 5w 40 are exactly the same. My mates argument is thinner when cold is better as it reaches the parts in need of oil quicker on initial start up than thicker stuff Dont know

Jury's still out for me. All I know is mine doesn't use virtually any oil, though it does use slightly less on the 5w 40 than 0w 40. Also, until last year mines run on 0w 40 mobil 1 all its life (around 125k miles).
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NLW73
Barcelona


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 1458
Location: Yateley


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5w 40 for me.

going to try millers 10w 50 at next oil change

mine is a 90k mile 997 3.8 which has been rebuilt at 83k.
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diverzeusy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 1019
Location: Doncaster UK


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
It's only thicker when it's cold. Once up to temp. 0w 40 and 5w 40 are exactly the same. My mates argument is thinner when cold is better as it reaches the parts in need of oil quicker on initial start up than thicker stuff Dont know

Jury's still out for me. All I know is mine doesn't use virtually any oil, though it does use slightly less on the 5w 40 than 0w 40. Also, until last year mines run on 0w 40 mobil 1 all its life (around 125k miles).


so scenario is, older engine and space between e.g. bearings
New 20 thousandths of one inch
100k miles 35 thousandths of one inch. (these are examples, Not actual)
Over night stood in the centrally heated garage, the thin oil would drain from the gap where capillary action used to keep it there ready for starting, the very slightly thicker oil will stay due to that very same capillary action, therefore every time you start up there is less wear on the older engine with the thicker oils, when hot I would say minimal advantage as the pump is sending high pressure hot oil to all the parts anyway.
Its just the initial start from cold.
maybe i'm talking my logical engineering rubbish Dont know
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Frenchmeister
Barcelona


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 1328
Location: Beautiful Cumbria.

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^^What Zeusy has said ^^^^^^^ my car before being sold ran on Fuchs GT1 5/40 very negligible oil use and no problems Thumb
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diverzeusy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 1019
Location: Doncaster UK


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just checked and the last 4 oil changes have been with Mobil1 motorsport formula 10w-60 fully synthetic.
No oil use, always a clean as in smoke free start and no rattles, my turbo is on 85k miles
link to oil,

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-69026-mobil-1-10w-60-advanced-full-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

Website Description:
Mobil 1 10w-60 Advanced Full Synthetic Engine Oil
Mobil Ultimate Performance 10w-60 Synthetic Engine Oil
has been designed to help provide the extra protection that older engines can demand. It is suitable for virtually all types of older vehicles and operating conditions.
Mobil 1 10W-60 is engineered to help provide long lasting protection in higher mileage engines so you can get a longer life span out of your vehicles' engine.

Mobil oils link
https://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-engine-oils/extended-life-10w-60.aspx
Not silly price either, i'm sticking with this Thumb
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16369
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diverzeusy wrote:

so scenario is, older engine and space between e.g. bearings
New 20 thousandths of one inch
100k miles 35 thousandths of one inch. (these are examples, Not actual)
Over night stood in the centrally heated garage, the thin oil would drain from the gap where capillary action used to keep it there ready for starting, the very slightly thicker oil will stay due to that very same capillary action, therefore every time you start up there is less wear on the older engine with the thicker oils, when hot I would say minimal advantage as the pump is sending high pressure hot oil to all the parts anyway.
Its just the initial start from cold.
maybe i'm talking my logical engineering rubbish Dont know


Err.........no - when the car was parked up in the garage both *w 40 oils would have the same viscosity (presuming we're parking the cars up after being up at temp). The 0w is only thicker when cold. So parking up - both oils would drain from the gap.
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diverzeusy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 1019
Location: Doncaster UK


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex wrote:
diverzeusy wrote:

so scenario is, older engine and space between e.g. bearings
New 20 thousandths of one inch
100k miles 35 thousandths of one inch. (these are examples, Not actual)
Over night stood in the centrally heated garage, the thin oil would drain from the gap where capillary action used to keep it there ready for starting, the very slightly thicker oil will stay due to that very same capillary action, therefore every time you start up there is less wear on the older engine with the thicker oils, when hot I would say minimal advantage as the pump is sending high pressure hot oil to all the parts anyway.
Its just the initial start from cold.
maybe i'm talking my logical engineering rubbish Dont know


Err.........no - when the car was parked up in the garage both *w 40 oils would have the same viscosity (presuming we're parking the cars up after being up at temp). The 0w is only thicker when cold. So parking up - both oils would drain from the gap.


Err...….yes actually, sort of, I'm using 10w-60
10w is the winter or cold viscosity, when this is hot all equal
however
the 60 is the hot viscosity and 60 is thicker when hot than 40 or 50 and so will not loose the capillary action I previously mentioned as easy as the 40 or 50,
or put simply I suppose I could say
10W-60 is thicker in all scenarios than
0W-40 or 5W-40
however I stand to be corrected Thumb Smile
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16369
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup Agreed. I misunderstood you and thought you were comparing 40 vs 40 Thumb
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