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Pricing opinion on fresh Hartech engine rebuild 997 C2 Tip

To be fair on those stats - many of the Hartech jobs are dealers making a car sellable (only getting the rogue cylinder fixed) and probably aren't listed by them as being a rebuild when selling. It's like when you backed your car into the garden wall and have the rear resprayed - you never, ever put it in your listing when selling.
 
DucatiRob said:
I always enjoy these threads :D

Phil is spot on :thumb: Don't but a 15 year old performance car of any type and not expect to lay out some cash to keep it healthy! There is obviously a risk of needing to shell out some serious wedge with these cars if you are unlucky! A quick (unscientific) test of all 3.8 997's on sale on Autotrader results in 6 out of 251 referencing Hartech, and 13 of 251 referring to a rebuild of some sort, consistent with the theory that bore scoring affects a fairly small percentage of these engines.

I bought my car 3 1/2 years ago, I was aware of the potential for engine issues, but ultimately buying a 911, like many things, is an emotional decision, so the risk factor went out of the window! Fortunately I ended up paying less than I had original intended for the car, so when it was diagnosed with bore scoring 6 months after buying it, painful as it was, I was sort of prepared for it! Man maths convinced me that a £10k outlay that gave me a good as new (well better really) engine, plus adding a little value to a car that holds it's value much better than anything else out there already for similar money, made it a little easier to bear!

I bought a brand new Merc 15 years ago for my ex :? sold it after three years and lost more than it cost me for my engine rebuild (much more), a car that brought me no pleasure whatsoever!

My advice, buy a 997 with your eyes wide open, buy it anyway and drive the nuts off, be prepared for some big bills, but enjoy :thumb: :thumb:

:thumb: :thumb: :thumbs: I might add that all dealings I have had with Hartech have been nothing but helpful and professional at all times and in fact they advised me out of spending more money that I was prepared to pay as they felt I wouldn't get value for it. Biased no, and I think saying that they are only there to make money is insulting. Sure, making money has to be part of it, it is a business after all, but they have a passion for all things Porsche and share that passion with a love of good engineering practice.
 
Alex said:
To be fair on those stats - many of the Hartech jobs are dealers making a car sellable (only getting the rogue cylinder fixed) and probably aren't listed by them as being a rebuild when selling. It's like when you backed your car into the garden wall and have the rear resprayed - you never, ever put it in your listing when selling.

Agree Alex, very unscientific, but at least it's an indication that bore scoring is not prevalent :?

Have never reversed into a wall... but I have run head on into a lamp post outside a friends house in full view of all my mates :oops: :sad:
 
:grin:
 
DucatiRob said:
Alex said:
To be fair on those stats - many of the Hartech jobs are dealers making a car sellable (only getting the rogue cylinder fixed) and probably aren't listed by them as being a rebuild when selling. It's like when you backed your car into the garden wall and have the rear resprayed - you never, ever put it in your listing when selling.

Agree Alex, very unscientific, but at least it's an indication that bore scoring is not prevalent :?

Have never reversed into a wall... but I have run head on into a lamp post outside a friends house in full view of all my mates :oops: :sad:

10 pints does cause that to happen Rob. :grin: is it just a coincidence that 13 of 251 is about the magic 5% :dont know: thats spooky 8) :grin:

Anyway you guys that spend 25k on a gen1 and then spend another 10k on a rebuild have it soooooo good :grin: try being the sucker that spent 48k on a bullet proof gen2 4S with the "oh you must have a manual its not a 911 if its not got a manual" and within 18 months had to spend another 25k on an engine rebuild , gearbox rebuild, clutch and flywheel and all the coolant pipes replaced . and I am still smiling and love all things 997, but still hate manuals :grin: :grin: :grin:

Maybe I need to buy a goldfish :?: :floor: :floor: :floor:
 
Phil 997 said:
DucatiRob said:
Alex said:
To be fair on those stats - many of the Hartech jobs are dealers making a car sellable (only getting the rogue cylinder fixed) and probably aren't listed by them as being a rebuild when selling. It's like when you backed your car into the garden wall and have the rear resprayed - you never, ever put it in your listing when selling.

Agree Alex, very unscientific, but at least it's an indication that bore scoring is not prevalent :?

Have never reversed into a wall... but I have run head on into a lamp post outside a friends house in full view of all my mates :oops: :sad:

10 pints does cause that to happen Rob. :grin: is it just a coincidence that 13 of 251 is about the magic 5% :dont know: thats spooky 8) :grin:

Anyway you guys that spend 25k on a gen1 and then spend another 10k on a rebuild have it soooooo good :grin: try being the sucker that spent 48k on a bullet proof gen2 4S with the "oh you must have a manual its not a 911 if its not got a manual" and within 18 months had to spend another 25k on an engine rebuild , gearbox rebuild, clutch and flywheel and all the coolant pipes replaced . and I am still smiling and love all things 997, but still hate manuals :grin: :grin: :grin:

Maybe I need to buy a goldfish :?: :floor: :floor: :floor:
Les and Phil997. Two of the unluckiest punters in the Porsche world
 
Baz, to quote your own post:

"come on all you doubters and take me on over what bias you think we provide! telling the truth is not bias which according to the dictionary is "something unfair, unreasonable, a misstep in thinking, a discrepency between a measurement and the true value etc"

Sorry to be pedantic, but logically there is a discrepancy between measurement and the true value - because 1) you only measure the broken cars, and 2) no-one knows the true value.

Perhaps you misinterpret the concept of bias. You can tell the truth and still be biased. For example GMG on this thread is being truthful and honest when he says 997 gen 1's are risky. But he's biased because he had one go pop. You might argue that he has a "misstep in thinking" since apparently only 5% of cars are affected.

My mother-in-law used to say "Welsh people are rude" because she once had a rude customer who was Welsh. She was truthful, but biased. Her opinion was based on her experience. So is GMG's, mine, in fact all the posters on this thread, including Hartech.

In summary, Baz, don't confuse bias with integrity. They are different, and I suspect Hartech has both, like we all (hopefully) do.

Regards, Mike.
 
KJD (Kev) isn't rude , but then its my opinion that the Welsh are the real English as thats where queen boudicca and her people fled when the Romans came , the rest of us are from Saxony or Normandy or Norway and many other countries around the world . queen boudicca was a Celt and I have often heard the Welsh called something like that :floor: :floor: :floor:
 
...2k...where have you been?

While we were running around arranging PPIs, researching endlessly, seeking counsel from the erudite amongst those on these forums etc ,etc all we needed to do was request that you apply your mystical insights and tell us which cars aren't going to explode on us ... you could have saved us all expense and heartache...

:floor:
 
Phil 997 said:
there will always be the two camps the "they are all going to go pop at some point" camp and the "Its only a small percentage and a reasonable risk "camp.

Mine went pop so for me it was a 100%!
But I'd had 50k+ miles and 11 years out of the car for very little expenditure (£18k purchase price minus whatever the plate 911 AU is worth + not an awful lot of running costs)
Best car I've had.
£10k for an engine rebuild? My quote was £11k+vat for 3.4 or £14k+vat for 3.7. Plus the cost of those 'while the engine is out jobs.'
That would leave me with a tatty C2 tip cab with a great engine.
Or I could buy a mint C4S tip cab with a run-in full rebuild (less than 10k miles) and an additional £22k spent in the last few thousand miles for a tad over £25k. Guess which I did.
I guess if I had more time, more skills and couldn't/didn't want to spend that then I might have carried on with the old car.

I only looked for cars with a Hartech rebuild when looking for a replacement car.

Different paths work for different people, no right or wrong

Cheers

Ed
 

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