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willy
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 133
Location: Cheshire\Wales Border


PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Immobiliser Woes? No - just the starter motor - FIXED Reply with quote

Ok - where do I start?

For a few years now, my key fob has not activated the car's central locking. I have simply opened the car manually and driven like fury.

The car has also suffered frequently from a `warm start` problem. After a few attempts it usually fires up and off we go, driving like fury.

For some inane reason, I took the car last week to a `specialist` in an attempt to get to the bottom of both. The drew a blank on the key fob problem but declared that the warm start issue was due to a dirty starter motor clogged with carbon. Problem sorted... (?)

Since having the car back, each time I lock the car manually and then return, the car fails to start with symptoms akin to a flat battery i.e. it tries but doesn't turn over.

It's not a flat battery. The first time it happened, after about 20 mins fannying around waiting for my mate to pick me up with a battery pack, I managed to trigger the alarm and Hey Presto, the car started immediately.

Unfortunately, not the same tonight. Parked outside a local petrol station, I needed to lock\unlock the car to unlock the petrol cap. On returning to the car after paying - no bananas. Multiple attempts to start, triggered the alarm many times etc but no joy. Fortunately, the kind lady in the petrol station helped steer the car as I pushed it to a parking bay.


Thoughts\ideas\ridicule all welcome. Fortunately it was only a 2 mile walk home.
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1998 996 Carrera Ocean Blue

Last edited by willy on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6523
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you had a new key fob coded on ?

If not i think thats the first thing to try as the fob will not only open the car but turn off the alarm .. which the key in the door lock will not do .. you have 10 seconds to get it in the ignition or the alarm will trigger .

Do you mean the car spins over slowly or you get nothing at all ?

If just ignition lights on and nothing then that could well be down to the alarm system .. it could on a scale of things be the ignion lock but thats a second after the alarm.

If the car spins over but very slowly and it has a new starter motor then the next thing to check is the engine earth strap o/s/r followed by the main power lead connection point on the gear box .

If you check the alarm fault codes and you have something like W lead fault or K lead fault then its the alarm messing around .
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willy
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 133
Location: Cheshire\Wales Border


PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Iain

Many thanks for the reply. I think my initial post was tainted with frustration!

What seems to have happened since the starter motor has been `cleaned` is that the occasional warm start issue has become a frequent one.

I picked the car up this morning from the petrol station. It started first time. Drove it the 3 miles home, parked up and attempted a restart. Everything lit up but only a single turn of the engine. This remained the case for 4-5 attempts. On returning to the car ~ 30 mins later, it started first time.

Similar thing this evening. It started fine, took it for a spin but it failed to restart with again a single turn of the engine.

My thoughts now are less complicated than last night. I'm thinking that if the engine turns, then the alarm\immobiliser have passed and this is a problem with the starter motor or possibly the wiring harness to it?

I should state that the battery is < 2 years old and I changed the camshaft sensor last year (all in hope of fixing the warm start issue). Whilst I haven't yet checked accurately, the dash indicates that the alternator is pushing ~14V when the engine is running.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6523
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok .. so if i have this correct ..

When hot the engine will turn over say once and then not turn over at all ?

Leave it to cool down and it spins over fine and starts ?

You havent had a new starter motor fitted but someone has removed it and " cleaned " it ?

The above symptoms would indicate to me it needs a new starter motor and perhaps a good look at the engine earth lead , o/s/r .

If on the other hand the car doesnt spin over at all when hot then i would be thinking its the crank position sensor .. this is easily proved .. fit a noid light into an injector when it doesnt start ...

The light on it wont flash but will when it cools down .
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willy
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 133
Location: Cheshire\Wales Border


PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile

I think your initial statement sums it up pretty accurately - the only thing I would add is that when hot, each attempt to start the engine will cause a single turn over but nothing more. Once cool, it starts fine.

I'll book it in with my usual workshop next week for some diagnosis but with the intention of replacing the starter motor and checking all straps.

A few questions arise:

Is there any value nowadays in repairing a starter motor? That's what we used to in the good old days Wink

If not, there is a wide range in prices (£75 - £400) available. Does anyone have an opinion here?

Finally, I read a lot about the +ve alternator\starter motor harness wiring being poor over time. Is it adviseable to replace that (@£80 ish) whilst we're at it?
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6523
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

997 suffer from the wiring to the starter but no so much on the 996 .. your garage has already removed the starter so if there was a problem there i would have thought they would have seen it .

Most starters these days are recon units .. to buy a new one is rather expensive shall we say.

ECP sell them so perhaps one from there if the garage confirms it .
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willy
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 133
Location: Cheshire\Wales Border


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Immobiliser Woes? No - just the starter motor - FIXED Reply with quote

Ordered a Lucas starter motor on Sunday from CP4L for ~£110 plus a refundable amount when I return the old one.

Arrived on Friday after a chase.

Just spent an extremely satisfying 2 hours fitting it at a friend's workshop. I haven't done that kind of thing since the early 90s so was nice to have someone nearby `just in case`.

I removed the air box and throttle to gain access then a long bar with a universal joint did the trick to get to the bolts. Once the old motor was off, it was visibly faulty. There is a bush that should remain seated in the housing but it was moving out with the drive cog. Lord knows what the `specialist` did when he cleaned it, but let's just chalk that up to my experience.

New motor fitted and it starts like a dream.


Many thanks as always to deMort for the supportive advice. A further small top-up to your daughter's fund raising is on its way.

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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6523
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that has got to be a very satisfying result ..

I had no idea you were going to fit it yourself otherwise i could have given you instructions .

Thank you for another donation .. it's much appreciated but honestly it's not required .. im happy to assist anyone if i can .

I did wonder about it being " cleaned " but i couldn't comment on that as i have no idea what people have actually done and have to take things at face value .
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