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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2897
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

darkhorse wrote:
apollokre1d wrote:
darkhorse wrote:
One other question, does anyone know where I can obtain the workshop tech manuals for the car? I keep thinking I have found the PDFs online but most sites look questionable so I have not obtained anything of use yet!!!


I think I have those, sent you a PM.


Many thanks Thumb


Pleasure, just uploading them now, best take easternjets offer too just encase.
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darkhorse
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Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:
Hi darkhorse I have a parts manual for the 3.6 turbo which I can email to you, if you pm me your email address I will send it.
Coil packs issues tend to be terminal, in that once they go that's it.
I stripped my Turbo down a few years ago and it wasn't as bad a job as I'd expected, the main PIA is rusted studs and corroded nuts that crumble before your eyes. The engines are pretty much bomb proof, if you get the chance when it's a apart change the main water pump, they are a weak point and whilst everything's apart it's so much easier than in 6 months time. For a water pump go to Autodoc as they are a quarter of the price that Porsche charge and they are a genuine part. Also the main drive belt as well as they only cost £30.
One word of warning, the new coil packs are different to the old coil packs so you will need 5 new style and one old style, the new slightly larger Beru coil pack won't fit behind the turbo actuator on I think the drivers side and no amount of 'adjustment' will make them fit. So if your getting packs from Design 911 mention this to them as they got me an old style one which took about a week to get.


many thanks, will do!
Also thankyou very much for the heads up on the coils and other parts. I will be sure to get the right coils and I most certainly would not have; were it not for this forum and you guys!

I have receipts saying coils and plugs were done in 2016, I am not sure if it worth redoing them so soon?

When you say the coil pack issues tend to be terminal, can you elaborate a little? You mean that the car just runs worse and worse?

THanks
 
  
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darkhorse
Newbie


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
darkhorse wrote:
apollokre1d wrote:
darkhorse wrote:
One other question, does anyone know where I can obtain the workshop tech manuals for the car? I keep thinking I have found the PDFs online but most sites look questionable so I have not obtained anything of use yet!!!


I think I have those, sent you a PM.


Many thanks Thumb


Pleasure, just uploading them now, best take easternjets offer too just encase.


Awesome. They are awesome thanks very much Smile
 
  
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darkhorse
Newbie


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:
Old and new Beru coil packs. You can see how the securing bolts are rebated on the old pack and sit proud on the new pack, that's the problem, the bolt fouls the actuator as it sticks up to high.


Awesome, potentially saved me a lot of headscratching!! cheers
 
  
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the coil packs fail they fail completely and you will have a noticeable misfire.
Coil packs fail because the older style get moisture inside them, they split and then they fail. If you inspect the packs and they look like the ones in my pic then your pretty safe but if you see rust weeping out then bin them straight away.
The make your looking for is Beru and the water pump is a Pierburg.
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darkhorse
Newbie


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit of an update chaps!

Well the car has turned out to be a good purchase in terms or price/condition but we are working through a jobs list and I have been sourcing some parts which hasn't proven that easy (had a major job finding a new TT airbox from a breaker as mine is cracked ). It is currently stripped down and awaiting attention once all parts have landed.

Other issues /jobs being attended to:

new billet tandem pump cover being fitted as the old one looks in poor order.

Exhaust system all stripped off as the nuts on the turbo to manifold studs were literally in really poor order and it was blowing from both sides and quite possibly causing the poor idling so the techs think. This will be getting new gaskets studs and nuts.

Full set of spark plugs and coil packs being fitted.

Quality oil and OE filter replacement.

Coil pack head shields being replaced.

New airbox assembly (top and bottom) and air filter



Once this lot is done it will be roadtested and with a bit of luck I will get the car back ready to roll so to speak.


I am curious, does anyone know if the manual 6 speed in the 997 C4 is the same box as the turbo manual 6 speed? Has anyone ever done a manual conversion on a tiptronic on here? (Im not planning to, just interested!)

Cheers
 
  
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say quality oil for the 3.6 a lot of us have used Millers Nanodrive 10-50w oil, it is expensive but it's used by a lot of engine rebuilders and they swear by it. It's a lot thicker than Mobil which is what Porsche use.
Also another make I've come across is Royal Purple, I happened to get an exhaust fixed at a place in N upon Tyne and he is the importer for Royal Purple oil, I know it was sales patter but the product comes very highly recommended by a lot of high performance engine users, it is flippin expensive though!

You seem to have taken a risk on the turbo but I'm glad it's come good for you.
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darkhorse
Newbie


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:
When you say quality oil for the 3.6 a lot of us have used Millers Nanodrive 10-50w oil, it is expensive but it's used by a lot of engine rebuilders and they swear by it. It's a lot thicker than Mobil which is what Porsche use.
Also another make I've come across is Royal Purple, I happened to get an exhaust fixed at a place in N upon Tyne and he is the importer for Royal Purple oil, I know it was sales patter but the product comes very highly recommended by a lot of high performance engine users, it is flippin expensive though!

You seem to have taken a risk on the turbo but I'm glad it's come good for you.


Thanks for the info easternjets. Will look into the Millers and may well go that route. I think Mobil was indeed the planned route (or whatever Porsche recommended).

I have used Royal Purple before and it was indeed expensive but came well recommended!

Regards the turbo. Yes, it was a risk for certain, but nothing ventured nothing gained was the modus operandi!
 
  
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you consider doing the water pump? When you see the trouble you have to go through to get the exhaust system off it is worth it.
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darkhorse
Newbie


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:
Did you consider doing the water pump? When you see the trouble you have to go through to get the exhaust system off it is worth it.


Sorry, forgot that! yes indeed, its having a new OE waterpump as a matter of course while its all in bits!!

Thanks!

Oh, its also having a new electric water pump as well.

Not sure if there is anything else to do while in there, think anything that needs it is being replaced at this point. Hoping it runs right when back together. It didnt show any misfire codes on their diagnostic system hence they think the rough(er) than normal idle was exhaust leakage related. Will find out in a week or two!
 
  
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ragpicker
Estoril


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3986
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:
When the coil packs fail they fail completely and you will have a noticeable misfire.
Coil packs fail because the older style get moisture inside them, they split and then they fail.


This is not quite true Nick, coil pack failure is not binary.

Sure, when they split, corrode and get wet they misfire. However when they dry out they can also return to working as if nothing had happened.

Equally, as they age they may not produce as high a quality spark from the plug as they should and this can lead to misfiring or hesitation when the most powerful spark is required - ie at high speed/WOT.

Regardless, its best to change them as soon as you can so you have a baseline from which to fault find.

Personally, I'd be surprised if the exhaust leak was causing any of the problems you've mentioned, especially if its after the post cat lambda. Erratic idles are often linked to post MAF vac leaks and fuelling problems (ie injectors, fuel pressure etc) although there are many others.

Good luck with the troubleshooting, I'm sure it'll be well worth the effort Thumb
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a bit confusing 'ragpicker' to say that the failures are binary, as this would insinuate that there are 2 reasons why they fail. My comment was relating to the cause of the failure rather than the symptom and as the item is electrical there may be many reasons for them to stop working.
My point was that 'generally' when they fail it's due to corrosion and splitting and water ingress which would be terminal in most electrical items, so as a 'precaution' it would be sage to replace them as soon as it becomes apparent that they are starting to deteriorate.
Or to put in simply if they look shot, change them! Especially so as they give no warning that they are failing.
It's good to catch up with you at last after Dinslaken, although maybe not in this way.
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ragpicker
Estoril


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3986
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we've got our wires crossed Nick (pardon the pun)!

I was saying that pack failures are NOT binary, and was trying to say that there is a large grey area between working and failing completely.

I didn't realise my comment came across as offensive towards you, was just trying to help the OP out. Apologies if it came across that way Dont know

I thought your post implied that once packs failed, they failed and that was that (which isn't true). It read to me that if you don't always have a misfire then the packs haven't failed. I just wanted to clear this up for others reading...

Now I feel like the water is even muddier Confused
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15344
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of the term 'binary' in this context is that it means something is either working or not working.

Coil packs don't fail in a binary manner as they can deteriorate but still work, albeit less effectively.

I don't know how much they under-perform when they are cracked but even in the wet they still work intermittently.

My car has just had all six replaced and five of them looked awful. They were still working very well - not as good as the new six though. Very Happy
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As my post stated if they look split/rusty or are 10 yrs old or more then replace them. As they are not a roadside fix this would be a wise thing to do and as the car was being stripped anyway a bit of a no brainer.
My cars coil packs also looked terrible but hadn't failed, my main point as well was that they give no warning and I know a number of people with gen 1 cars especially that have been stranded when one has failed completely.
And as usual a simple 'tip' has been turned into an in depth discussion of what might or might not be right!
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15344
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

easternjets wrote:


As my post stated if they look split/rusty or are 10 yrs old or more then replace them. As they are not a roadside fix this would be a wise thing to do and as the car was being stripped anyway a bit of a no brainer.



Yeah even though darkhorse's original post said that they'd been changed 3 years ago.

I also agree that even if 5 of the 6 are working 100% it wouldn't be nice to be any distance from home with a mis-firing car.
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easternjets
Kyalami


Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 1953
Location: Darlington


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Terry, some people have told me that even when one goes it renders the car virtually 'dead'.
As the OP got the car at a reasonable price it will only add to the value to get all the jobs done that are relatively cheap in regards to components but high in labour charges.
My list ended up including coolant pipes, pump, front rad, drive belt, coil packs, plugs and new manifolds.

One thing I also did was the Turbo actuator rods, they're about £30 each and a relatively easy swap out when the cars on a ramp and the inner arches are removed. The rods might look in reasonable condition but it's the retaining clips that corrode and the ball joint pops off quite easily. You can test the function of the actuator by just pushing it with your hand.
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darkhorse
Newbie


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well work is still ongoing...
By good fortune the engine bay water pipes are new or have been replaced recently (who would have thought you had to remove the engine to replace them!).
The front radiator pipes however need doing and as such they are all being replaced. Quite a lot of work as they are all welded into one another even though one had clear evidence of a leak at some point (green furring).

All exhaust/turbo related studs , nuts and bolts are being salvaged where possible (studs threads having a tap to clean them) and new stainless steel parts on the turbo to manifold joints.

The only thing I have yet to suss out seems to be a micro oil weep from some kind of drain plug at the bottom of the engine on the NS rear face. Not enough for a drip but I can see a little stain underneath it running down the casing. It has an allen key hole in the middle of it(passenger side ). Its like a cylindrical disc with an allen key hole in the centre. I will try and get a picture of it, its not the timing chain tensioner. But as yet I dont know what it is for!!!


I will get a picture of it tomorrow and post up for any info available!

The main battle seems to be removing rusted nuts. No idea what Porsche was thinking using mild steel all over the place!!
 
  
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Luddite
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 253
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have no experience with coil packs, though I did effect a temporary repair on a cracked HT coil by spraying it with WD40 to disperse damp and provide temporary insulation properties...

Perhaps if you have a misfire and suspect a coil pack it might be worth a try.. Question
 
  
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darkhorse
Newbie


Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 45



PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So all the front rad pipes are nearly done, aux water pump (had a big struggle with replacing that) the one thing that is remaining and that I am trying to find info on is

this, it looks like a chain tensioner? but I dont have the manual for the 997.1 turbo at present, the workshop manual I have is actually for the 997 3.6/3.8 NA versions, can anyone advise me if it is or even better if someone could steer me towards the 997.1 turbo engine manual I would be most grateful!

So yes, does engine need setting at TDC for this to be removed, or can it be unwound a couple of turns and some sealant put in the top threads as a stop gap. Basically, what the hell is it. Just looking for workshop procedure to remove/reseal it basically. Cheers!





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