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Porsche Specialist Surrey, Porsche Specialist London, Porsche Specialist East Sussex, Porsche Specialist West Sussex, Porsche Specialist South

Purchase Advice/Bore Scoring

Re: Great advice

villaman said:
Hi Phil,

I read your comments with great interest...very informative and interesting indeed.

Sorry to read of your gen 2 rebuild......my I please ask what caused this in a gen 2 car....?

I understood them to be largely immune to going bang.

May I to ask what mods you've done to you car.
Click to expand...

The story of Phil's 997.2 issues are documented in this thread.

Make yourself a cup of tea and settle down for a long read.

---> http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=129386&start=40&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
 
Thanks Terry, thats saves a lot of repeated info :grin: in summery the 997.2 needing a rebuild was not down to a weakness in the car but due to the use of nasty cheap 200cell cats that broke up and were ingested into the engine on overrun , now replaced with Cargraphic trimetal 200 cell cats.

Mods engine
Full cargraphic valved performance exhaust with 200 cell cats
IPD plenum TB kit
Fabspeed carbon twin cone induction kit
in the process of having a Chipwizards remap on it.

re the rest of the mods , its a very long list of internal and external mods the most obvious I guess is the GT3RS front , rear bumpers ,Carbon wing, side skirts . and the vertini magic concave alloys.

:grin: :grin:
 

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OP, please bear in mind there are degrees of bore scoring. Mine came up clean to a boroscope 2 weeks ago and has 81k miles :) But there can be a little bit, which isn't a problem, or a lot, which probably is a problem.

As others will of said, let the oil get warmed up before thrashing it and get the oil changed every year, not every 2 as porsche say. Don't go above 3000 RPM until the engine oil is warmed. You need the temp needle to start moving up off the bottom, but if there isn't any need to push harder, wait until its right up to temp.

There are enough cars around to not buy one with scoring, and please do get any car checked out. Or buy one with, but make sure you get £10k+ off!!

Find a good Indy to look after it and enjoy :) I am 4 years in and loving it.
 
Regarding the IMS bearing failure that can affect earlier cars, this is can be a catastrophic failure if it goes so I consider it more important than bore score. When I bought my 2004 C2 Manual 3.6 six months ago I knew the clutch needed replaced because it was very heavy so I had the IMS done (and the oil seal) at the same time. in fact it was not far off a minor service so I had that done too to save on oil & Northway charged around £2000 for parts & labour which I thought was well worth it for the peace of mind. When I bought the car I factored that cost in.

Bore Scoring is less likely in my model compared to others, although it could happen, but I am prepared to risk that for the chance to drive such an amazing car. Gen 2 911's are way more expensive & were not in my budget so it was either a Gen 2 Cayman or Gen 1 911, which for me was a very easy choice! If you are very risk averse maybe consider a Gen 2 Cayman, they are brilliant cars & no bore scoring, but that does open that age old can of worms comparing 911s to Caymans..... :lol:
 
As resigner says , theres a big difference between borescuff which is in all engines from all marques and Borescore as we know it in these cars , so it is important to use someone who knows what they are looking at to do the scope checks.

Also incase anyone needs the info re engine numbers for the new and old IMS bearings here it is.

Last IMS revision before no IMS (Gen2 MA1 block):

997 Carrera 3.6 with engine numbers from M96/0569507475 are the new IMS design.

M96/05 = 997 3.6 Carrera NA
6 = 6 cylinders
9 = design revision
5 = year (2005)
07475 = cumulative production serial

This means some MY2005 benefit and all MY2006 onwards benefit.


997 Carrera S 3.8 with engine numbers from M97/0168509790 are the new IMS design.

M97/01 = 997 3.8 Carrera NA
6 = 6 cylinders
8 = design revision
5 = year (2005)
09790 = cumulative production serial

This means some MY2005 benefit and all MY2006 onwards benefit.
 
Thanks for all the great responses 👍🏻

To be honest I haven't seen a car in the flesh that I want to buy, I've just been lurking on Autotrader/Pistonheads/EBay.

I've seen a couple I'm keen on but worried about buying from a private seller for the issues that you have all mentioned (plus getting a borescope done on a private car may be difficult).

I will post up a link to a car I am interested in just for you all to give me your opinion. Not that I'm about to get a train to but it but it will give me some insight as to what's potentially right/wrong with these cars.

Thanks again.
 
IggyMunro said:
Regarding the IMS bearing failure that can affect earlier cars, this is can be a catastrophic failure if it goes so I consider it more important than bore score. When I bought my 2004 C2S 3.6 6 months ago I knew the clutch needed replaced because it was very heavy so I had the IMS done (and the oil seal) at the same time. in fact it was not far off a minor service so I had that done too to save on oil & Northway charged around £2000 for parts & labour which I thought was well worth it for the peace of mind. When I bought the car I factored that cost in.

Bore Scoring is less likely in my model compared to others, although it could happen, but I am prepared to risk that for the chance to drive such an amazing car. Gen 2 911's are way more expensive & were not in my budget so it was either a Gen 2 Cayman or Gen 1 911, which for me was a very easy choice! If you are very risk averse maybe consider a Gen 2 Cayman, they are brilliant cars & no bore scoring, but that does open that age old can of worms comparing 911s to Caymans..... :lol:
Click to expand...



Thats a very sensible way you have approached your 997 ownership :thumb: :thumb:
 
IggyMunro said:
When I bought my 2004 C2S 3.6
Click to expand...

Sorry to be a pedant, but something is not right here... :dont know:
 
TonyC911 said:
IggyMunro said:
When I bought my 2004 C2S 3.6
Click to expand...

Sorry to be a pedant, but something is not right here... :dont know:
Click to expand...

:yeah:

C2 3.6 or C2S 3.8 ?

From previous posts I know that Iggy has a manual car so it's not the old Tiptronic S thing.
 
Tony :grin: I bet Iggys car is a 3.6 tipS Lots of guys get confused between a TipS and the 3.8 S
 
Ah , Terry dashed that idea then :grin: :grin: in that case maybe a typo but yes the 3.6 is a C2 :thumb: :thumb:
 
timbo1811 said:
Luddite said:
MattCPR,

I suspect low mileage garage queens that have spent the majority of their life locked up then taken out and ..err...enjoyed, might suffer more than those used more regularly...?




Something I don't understand is, how does a car which is used less stand a greater chance of borescoring?
Click to expand...

The theory would be that a 'garage queen' will spend a greater % of its total running time starting from cold when most wear occurs and relatively less protected by a coating of oil.
Click to expand...
 
MattCPR said:
Thanks for all the great responses 👍🏻

To be honest I haven't seen a car in the flesh that I want to buy, I've just been lurking on Autotrader/Pistonheads/EBay.

I've seen a couple I'm keen on but worried about buying from a private seller for the issues that you have all mentioned (plus getting a borescope done on a private car may be difficult).

I will post up a link to a car I am interested in just for you all to give me your opinion. Not that I'm about to get a train to but it but it will give me some insight as to what's potentially right/wrong with these cars.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...


My 2P firstly I was a bit taken aback as the pic of the PCM showed the destination as FERNDOWN which is where I live :eek: anyway onto the car. nice alloys , decent spec inc PSE only missing heated seats , it has the sports round steering wheel. mileage is ave for the year on these cars and price seems right . As this cars down south ,I am going to PM you the number of a trusted mobile Porsche trained tech who can do a PPI and borescope on it or infact any cars based down south. for you and give you a full written report on it. :thumb:
 
Re: Great advice

T8 said:
villaman said:
Hi Phil,

I read your comments with great interest...very informative and interesting indeed.

Sorry to read of your gen 2 rebuild......my I please ask what caused this in a gen 2 car....?

I understood them to be largely immune to going bang.

May I to ask what mods you've done to you car.
Click to expand...

The story of Phil's 997.2 issues are documented in this thread.

Make yourself a cup of tea and settle down for a long read.

---> http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=129386&start=40&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
Click to expand...


Thanks T8 and Phil 997....i'll have a read up.
 
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