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Estimate v invoice total

I'd say that deMort's and Ken's responses have been really helpful to me as a customer, in terms of asking (i) for an estimate (or fixed pricing where that is available), (ii) the technician's hourly rate, and (iii) the unforeseen risks, so that we can have an open discussion and I can then come to my own conclusion about how much all this might actually cost (and how long it all might take, as I usually have to leave the carat the garage and then go to work by public transport, and figure out when (and if) I can go back to collect the car).
 
Thank you all for the responses, particularly deMort's and Ken's which give good, open and transparent opinions and experience.

The reason I'm not 'naming and shaming' is because as deMort and Ken have advised, there is no shame on the part of the garage. The only shame lies with me for buying such a lemon! That said, by the time I get it back it should be a pretty sorted example which I can now enjoy and forget about the cost.

I certainly don't think I "joined up for a rant", I just wanted to understand if it was reasonable for the garage to charge as they have. Which is difficult to judge when speaking directly with them, as my judgement is clouded by the realisation of the substantial bill I have to pay (even more substantial than the one I was expecting to pay). If I hadn't asked the question then maybe I would've had a rant at the garage, which may not have been fair. The responses from deMort and Ken make it easier to understand and therefore accept.

As I said, I've no complaints with the quality of the work and their service - they warmed me up to the extra costs with progress updates after all. They also undertook some engine work under warranty, which they picked up on, so on balance, I would still use them in the future (once I've finished paying this bill off!).
 
It was late...had a few too many Peroni's :grin:

I am feeling the pain right now :sad:

MODERATOR COMMENT: Serves you right. :hand:
 
HSC911 said:
It was late...had a few too many Peroni's :grin:

I am feeling the pain right now :sad:
Click to expand...

I'm in your gang too :oops:
 
Ken @ 9E: "Porsche have book times - we use those as a maximum. Generally we will be quicker than those book times. Remember in an OPC the book time is what a tech is allowed - if he/she can do it in less, then his/her efficency rises - the customer still in that case get charged the book time. OPC tech get pulled in if their efficency is not 85% plus a week"

I'm not sure I could rally behind and support you on this statement on this occasion Ken. The indys around here in leafy Cheshire are of the view that OPC book times are out the window on a 996/997 car due to age. They are fine for shiny new cars, but with these cars having corroded bits and bobs, jobs take longer than OPC book times and they reflect that in any estimate.

The corollary to your point that if the OPC tech does the job in less time the customer still gets charged the book time is that if the job takes longer, the customer gets charged the book time only - borne out by my personal experience with OPC.You did not state this and its important to balance your point with this remark also.

I honestly cant state with confidence that an indy will ever charge like that OPC experience of mine for a job that takes longer than book time or estimated time.

I should state that I use both OPC and indy on a selective basis, so I am not slating indys and I'm not putting OPC on a pedestal. OPCs vary in customer service and experience just as much as indys. But I could not rally behind your statement above. It is simply untrue, has bias and inaccurate in my experience.
 
WD-40 said:
Thank you all for the responses, particularly deMort's and Ken's which give good, open and transparent opinions and experience.

The reason I'm not 'naming and shaming' is because as deMort and Ken have advised, there is no shame on the part of the garage. The only shame lies with me for buying such a lemon! That said, by the time I get it back it should be a pretty sorted example which I can now enjoy and forget about the cost.

I certainly don't think I "joined up for a rant", I just wanted to understand if it was reasonable for the garage to charge as they have. Which is difficult to judge when speaking directly with them, as my judgement is clouded by the realisation of the substantial bill I have to pay (even more substantial than the one I was expecting to pay). If I hadn't asked the question then maybe I would've had a rant at the garage, which may not have been fair. The responses from deMort and Ken make it easier to understand and therefore accept.

As I said, I've no complaints with the quality of the work and their service - they warmed me up to the extra costs with progress updates after all. They also undertook some engine work under warranty, which they picked up on, so on balance, I would still use them in the future (once I've finished paying this bill off!).
Click to expand...

But a job of 22hrs labour that then goes to 34hrs labour? Your into dropping an engine and gearbox in that sort of labour. You might consider sharing what the 22hrs labour estimate was for. Seems very high for the sort of work you described. Hell, I'd like to know who it was so that I don't make the mistake of going there. The work quality is immaterial. Its the labour quoted that seems high. Whenever I get an estimate from OPC or indy, I always ask how much is the labour time in that estimate? Then, cross-check it and discuss discrepancies, so that I understand how that estimate was arrived at if its higher than the book time.
 
Removing eccentric lower suspension arm bolts :grin:
 
I had those done as part of Geometry setup - seized solid and had to be cut out at Centre Gravity. Added about 2 hours to the bill which Chris at CG agreed with me and took him nearly 3 hours but he charged the 2 hrs only. 22hrs for eccentric bolts removal? Now who is that indy?
 
alex yates said:
Removing eccentric lower suspension arm bolts :grin:
Click to expand...

But using £10's worth of tools it takes 45mins of sawing per bolt so 3 hrs in total to remove 4 bolts. I'm not sure that they could charge for the other 3 hours the tech spends swearing, banging their head against a wall and the subsequent psychological damage this task causes. :frustrated:
 
After reading Ken@9e's explanation & also lots of other posts he has been involved in, I wish I stayed a lot closer as I would certainly be using him for any work required, but I think that a round trip of 1014 miles is just a bit far, (the last 14 miles was the clincher :sad: :floor: ) He seems to be one of the few genuine people that we would all wish to use. No wonder his garage is busy.
 
Works included replacing shocks, springs, bump stops, lower arms, suspension arms, anti roll bars, brake pipes, nipples, engine mounts and a geo amongst other things.
 
budflicker said:
Near Haywards Heath by any chance?
Click to expand...

I have nothing to do with my garage other than i currently work there and ive worked at many over the years .

I do work North of Brighton though as there are no Porsche garages here .

For the OP ...

That does sound like a lot of work and not just suspension .. hopefullly the garage has broken down the invoice and explained it better .

I cant say if its totally fair or not but my first post was just to explain the difficulties we face and leave it at that .
 
WD-40 said:
Works included replacing shocks, springs, bump stops, lower arms, suspension arms, anti roll bars, brake pipes, nipples, engine mounts and a geo amongst other things.
Click to expand...

Well rear brake pipes on a 996 Turbo is an engine drop with my local indy who recommends only OPC pre-formed brake pipes for the rear brsked. The labour is reduced considetsbly if you and he agreed kunifer pipes bent and shaped to avoid an engine/gearbox drop.

But 22 hrs that becomes 34 hours is just astonishing for that lot of work? And people talk about having their pants pulled down by OPC!
 
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