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a1butch
Trainee


Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Colchester


PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: 997 turbo v C2S costs and comparison. Reply with quote

Hi all.

Thought I would ask the experience on here opinions on the main running cost difference between the turbo and non turbo'd 997.1 Setting the initial cost outlay aside, are we just taking failed turbo and ancillarys?

Metzger engine seems to be bulletproof versus known scoring issues with 3.6 / 3.8

Fixed servicing costs seem to be fairly similar and not oceans apart.
 
  
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Kettmark
Trainee


Joined: 26 Jul 2018
Posts: 67



PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most costs will depend upon buying well in the first place & being a tad lucky. I've had my 99.1 c2s for a year now & has cost me buttons. Could have cost me £1000's. A lot down to pot luck but also homework.
Common sense would suggest running costs would be directly linked to purchase price costs.
Turbo approx 50% more than c2s so running cost commensurate to that.
 
  
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NickHappy
Nürburgring


Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 455
Location: W.Sussex


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: 997 turbo v C2S costs and comparison. Reply with quote

a1butch wrote:
Hi all.

Thought I would ask the experience on here opinions on the main running cost difference between the turbo and non turbo'd 997.1 Setting the initial cost outlay aside, are we just taking failed turbo and ancillarys?

Metzger engine seems to be bulletproof versus known scoring issues with 3.6 / 3.8

Fixed servicing costs seem to be fairly similar and not oceans apart.


Keep an eye on this thread

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=128556

I’m looking to keep this updated with costs and maintenance as and when it needs doing. So far Ive not had to spend much at all - that could change though......
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996 turbo Manual. ex.
 
  
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Magic919
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 1247
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mezger engine is rarely the problem. Turbos and related bits plus coolant pipes can rack up the bills. Look at 996 Turbo threads and you’ll see.

It’s not the standard services that eat up the money, so lower miles cars might be a safer bet.
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3846



PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The turbo is the higher maintenance cost car. The major service with soark plugs is a high hours job - ask any OPC the labour time and cost for major with plugs. The coolant pipes letting go is costly (if it happens). The turbos can suffer corrosion and 997 turbo refurb costs are considerably dearer than 996 turbos.

I recommend a call to Ken Napier at 9E. He will reliably put you in the picture and helo you assess maintenance costs for yourself. If you contemplate buying a 997 Turbo, I'd suggest an independent PPI with a marque specialist who really knows the model well and where and what to look for to get a good example.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15997
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had my 997 Turbo for 3 years 10 months and have done 22k miles in her. In that time I can't think of anything I've spent on it that wouldn't have cost the same as if I'd bought a C2S - bar the slightly more expensive routine servicing.

EDIT: I haven't noticed many stories on 911uk about 'failed Turbochargers' either considering there's an awful lot of 997T owners on here.
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2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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ragpicker
Reims


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 4029
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:

EDIT: I haven't noticed many stories on 911uk about 'failed Turbochargers' either considering there's an awful lot of 997T owners on here.


Agreed. Its normally corrosion that gets them. Sticky actuators on the 997, seized actuator flaps on the 997 turbo.

When mezger's need rebuilding though they are miles more expensive than other engines. Just the standard engine components (not including pistons, liners, gaskets, head studs) when rebuilding mine cost more than a full hartech rebuild inc labour and vat.

My 996 turbo is for sale in the FS section should you want a car with a new engine that wants for nothing.

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996 turbo - FOR SALE, Price reduced: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131025&highlight=
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
955 Cayenne Turbo - a work in progress: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131286&highlight=
 
  
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1229



PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are wondering which you have, I would say it depends on what you are going to use it for. I have a 2007 C2S cabrio. I've had cabrios for almost 20 years, couldn't do without one! I use it as my daily driver. I work from home, so don't do many miles, but it's a great daily. Wafts around when you want to, goes rather nicely when you want to, does everything.

If you want a special weekend car, and can afford one, then a turbo makes sense, but a C2S is still a magnificent balanced car which will run rings around modern fast cars. I should know, wife has a BMW M240i which is almost as fast as a C2S, but isn't anywhere near as interesting to drive, same can be said of things like Golf R's etc.

Try them both, see which suits you more, and it comes down to price as a decent C2S 997.1 can be bought for under £25k. A turbo is going to be rather more expensive, especially if you want a 997 1.5 manual in good condition!
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15997
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

resigner wrote:


Try them both, see which suits you more, and it comes down to price as a decent C2S 997.1 can be bought for under £25k. A turbo is going to be rather more expensive, especially if you want a 997 1.5 manual in good condition!



iirc 'butch has recently purchased a C2S but is already thinking about his next car.
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2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1229



PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
resigner wrote:


Try them both, see which suits you more, and it comes down to price as a decent C2S 997.1 can be bought for under £25k. A turbo is going to be rather more expensive, especially if you want a 997 1.5 manual in good condition!



iirc 'butch has recently purchased a C2S but is already thinking about his next car.



We men are always thinking about our next car........ Smile

I think the key thing is it is a daily driver. He will pay through the nose for a 1.5 manual turbo, I would have to think they are not daily drivers any more?
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3846



PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

997 1.5 Manual Turbo is a scarce car. On the thread about maintenance costs the major service with plugs for turbo is considerably more than the C2S.
Turbos breaking and coolant pipes blowing are not common.
Corrosion is the main affliction for Turbos due to location. IF a turbo engine requires a rebuild as Ragpicker mentions, the component costs are considerable. Thankfully its not a common occurrence.
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steve baker
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 398
Location: Essex, UK

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PX'ed 997.1 C2 for 997.1 Turbo in 2015. Main reason was concern that C2 engine would drop a large rebuild bill on me at some point unexpectedly. Always had that nagging doubt when driving the C2 so although it was a peach with many factory options my man maths dictated £10k worth of engine rebuild cost into a 997 turbo !! At the time I also needed to find another £10k Confused to buy the turbo from OPC. It came with 2 years warranty and I have maintained the warranty for piece of mind. Just had a major service at OPC and all in including plugs, aux belt, diff/trans fluids, brake fluid etc etc a tad shy of £2k. Running costs have been no more than the C2 as far as Insurance, Tyres etc. In fact if driven steady the turbo is more frugle on a run returning 33 mpg. Thumb I have had my monies worth from the warranty. Transmission removed twice for engine over rev issue at start up to be fixed. Still not fixed and due to be removed again in March. Coolant pipes over the top of the engine have been replaced. A/C Condensers have both been replaced. Tyre pressure sensors also done when I purchased. With transmission removed I paid for a clutch to be fitted as preventative maintenance £1200. Apart from that it has been everything I expected. A joy to drive and an event every time it comes out to play. I do miss the Cobalt C2 as it was a very rewarding car to drive and the 3.6 on full throttle was a delight. I didn't have warranty on it though and had numerous things sorted despite only being a 25k mile car. A/C rad n/s. Steering rack. Coffin arms both sides rear. Exhaust clamps. Tandem pump. Timing chain tensioner. If I'm honest none of the costs incurred in either car are more than I would expect from a prestige high performance sports car. I love the turbo and have no intention to change it But, had there been no chance of engine issues with the Carrera it would still be in my possession !! Laughing
 
  
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Lordjimimac
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Posts: 142
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 996tt and now 997.1 c4s. Both amazing machines!
My experiences can offer these thoughts:

996tt had just had a £6k 9e build before I bought it. Turbos actualtors rads clutch conndensers etc. Car was on 65k, so it seems this amount of wedge is needed for a mid life engine refresh

997.1 c4s had just had a £5k refresh from gt one before I bought it on suspension shocks rods etc etc. Car was on 62k.So it seems like this type of figure is needed for a suspension refresh.

Aside from that, each of these (and my 987s on 55k too) seem to cost £2k per year on servicing inc tyres brakes etc.

So id judge total service cost on each car based on where these big areas have been addressed or are pending.

Wish I could have both! C4s more satisfying to drive, but tt more special. Both awesome, lucky us lot!
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E92 M3 DCT Comp pack (space grey, black)
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Axlesnap
Silverstone


Joined: 08 May 2016
Posts: 122
Location: Kent/ Sussex


PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
I've had my 997 Turbo for 3 years 10 months and have done 22k miles in her. In that time I can't think of anything I've spent on it that wouldn't have cost the same as if I'd bought a C2S - bar the slightly more expensive routine servicing.

EDIT: I haven't noticed many stories on 911uk about 'failed Turbochargers' either considering there's an awful lot of 997T owners on here.


What about a manual C2S versus a Tip Turbo without a warranty Terry? Mechanic Smile
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15997
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Axlesnap wrote:
T8 wrote:
I've had my 997 Turbo for 3 years 10 months and have done 22k miles in her. In that time I can't think of anything I've spent on it that wouldn't have cost the same as if I'd bought a C2S - bar the slightly more expensive routine servicing.

EDIT: I haven't noticed many stories on 911uk about 'failed Turbochargers' either considering there's an awful lot of 997T owners on here.


What about a manual C2S versus a Tip Turbo without a warranty Terry? Mechanic Smile


Hand Duncan.

Manual v Tiptronic is a different comparison.

I've never made a warranty claim on the Turbo that couldn't equally have been made if my car was a Carrera.

AND, in fairness, if I hadn't have had the warranty I'd probably be driving around with a Tip'box covered in oil-mist like hundreds of others. The original didn't drip oil and the action of it wasn't affected.
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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