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orangefender
Silverstone


Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 106



PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Pricing in mods Reply with quote

Hi,

I’m getting back into a Porsche after a spell with a Maser. Looking at air cooled this time as a change in circumstances means I can realise a long term ambition of owning a 993!

I’m struggling with working out where values are at the moment. Not so long ago the only way was up, but I think it’s fair to say that’s less so now. As a result I’m struggling to work out where the market is.

Some of the cars I’m looking at have had mods done but my rule of thumb has been to ignore when it comes to conparing cars from a valuation perspective (and simply walk away if I don’t like).

Is that true for the 993 or would upgraded suspension, exhaust, engine chip etc. add value (assuming all repuatable RS type mods)?

Thanks

Ian
 
  
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1302
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really depends on what you want. The genuine RS bits are very expensive and some nla. So if that rocks your boat then get one with the mods done.
To get a nice unmodded 993 and do the conversion you will not get a return on what you would have to spend.
My car was never considered as a financial investment.
I nice clean well maintained 993 or 964 will always be a financial asset.
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Dream911
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2423
Location: London


PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, depends on what you want.

If you want a car as it left the factory then the mods are of no value to you and it might cost you more ££ to return the car to original spec, others wanting an RS rep would be happy to pay more for a car that had the correct mods over a factory standard car.

These cars aren`t getting any younger so things that have been refreshed are generally a plus so a suspension refresh would be a plus in my mind rather than a a negative unless its with something that is race oriented.

Exhausts like RSR`s would be a plus.

Incorrect seats or incorrect interior retrim would be a big negative. Racing seats like recaro Pole positions would be a negative but you could probably sell them and find an original seat of seats for similar money.

3rd party body kits are a big negative.

Racing chips are a big negative unless its a remap by someone like Wayne Schofield.

Engine rebuilds are a plus if the right person has rebuilt it. A negative otherwise.

3rd party wheels would be a negative unless they were something like RUF or BBS.

Everyone will be different so figure out what you want from the car and go from there. Thumb

Last edited by Dream911 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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stichill99
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 324
Location: Scottish Borders


PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: 993 Reply with quote

I agree with all of the above. My car is standard silver coupe with black leather,manual,only non standard bits are BBS LM's. !00k miles and I wouldn't sell it for less than £45k. When you see what Ford escorts sell for I think a 993 is a bargain!
 
  
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AP90
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 354
Location: Cornwall UK


PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think cosmetic mods such as spoilers and body kits, in my humble opinion are not great and could be expensive to return to original should you so desire

I have a 996 three spoke steering wheel, which is not everyone's cup of tea and also a turbo front bumper again, controversial, but I quite like both

Suspension upgrades are welcome, I think.

Mine has an LWF and RS clutch again not everyone's favourite

The original headlights are pretty awful so HID's/LEDs are a must

Other things like interior alloy and pedals in my opinion are not great but can be put right at limited cost

These cars are very personal and each to his own for mods, however I wouldn't be looking to pay a premium for any mod if I was looking to buy, Indeed I think the more "original" the car is, the better the purchase it represents

Good luck with your search
 
  
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cableguy
Kyalami


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1871
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aesthetic or performance mods are a personal thing and would only add value if the potential buyer was looking to add these anyway. A set of Speedlines, BBS etc. would of course be a bonus and personally i'd pay extra when you consider a set of genuine Speedlines are £6k+.

If I were you i'd be looking at maintenance work like chassis legs, screen surrounds, suspension refresh, head & tail light refresh along with other common issues prone to 20+ year air cooled cars.

I bought my car three years ago and have maintained as detailed above (chassis legs, suspension refresh etc.), plus the usual distributor caps & rotor arms, plug lead set, brake overhaul, gearbox oil change and regular servicing... I've genuinely spent £10k+ on maintenance and quite a bit more on modifications and annual servicing.

Take your time and get some prices from your local specialists as most 993's on the market are going to need a few £££'s throwing at them, no matter how shiny and nice they look.

C.
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crash7
Montreal


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 572



PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mods are totally subjective and what someone thinks is a negative others will see as a positive.

IMHO I do not agree with some of what has been said, such as an engine rebuild being a negative, unless completed by a builder whom happens to be flavour of the month, a lesson should be learned here from SVP, there are many good engine builders just because they are not talked about on forums does not make them worse than the ones that are - But this is only my opinion and not fact which makes my point about things being subjective.

Wheels are easy to change and should not be a factor, a car with Speedline split rims would appeal to many, as the RS items have been known to change hands for 15k, which puts BBS, even E88, seem cheap!

Suspension, the cars are circa 20 years old, the original dampers will be shot, Porsche no longer make the original Monroe dampers, not withstanding the tech is also 20 years old. - Thus a suspension refresh should be seen as a future cost avoidance benefit, KW & Bilstein are both quality.

Porsche has just begun to twig there is money to be made here and have introduced a modern classic damper engineered by Bilstien.

Engine mods are usually limited to an air filter, exhaust and perhaps a chip, all in reality give very very modest performance gains and can be reversed.

More relevant than mods is what has been pointed out, maintenance and rust, your better off buying a modified car that is solid with a good service history, than a bone stock that’s falling apart, reversing mods will be cheaper than having to replace the suspension and sort out issues like a rusty scuttle.

Should you pay more for a modified car, buy on condition as this will ultimately set the price.
 
  
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tyinsky
Montreal


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 581
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Pricing in mods Reply with quote

orangefender wrote:
Hi,

I’m getting back into a Porsche after a spell with a Maser. Looking at air cooled this time as a change in circumstances means I can realise a long term ambition of owning a 993!

I’m struggling with working out where values are at the moment. Not so long ago the only way was up, but I think it’s fair to say that’s less so now. As a result I’m struggling to work out where the market is.

Some of the cars I’m looking at have had mods done but my rule of thumb has been to ignore when it comes to conparing cars from a valuation perspective (and simply walk away if I don’t like).

Is that true for the 993 or would upgraded suspension, exhaust, engine chip etc. add value (assuming all repuatable RS type mods)?

Thanks

Ian



As others have said, go on condition and history. Some mods may hold a premium of some sort, but unless something is rare or sought after it won’t be much. Watch for the age and condition of mods too as a some of the most popular like suspension, exhausts, LWF with RS clutch, big brakes are all consumables. My car came with Bilstein PSS adjusables, an RS clutch, turbo/4S/big reds and RSR/sports cats. Within the first year the Bilsteins had been rebuilt, clutch replaced, disks and pads replaced. Exhaust and sports cats are on my list for replacement 2019 (because I want better, it still works). Go on condition and build it into what you want later.
 
  
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1502
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crash7 wrote:

Suspension, the cars are circa 20 years old, the original dampers will be shot, Porsche no longer make the original Monroe dampers,


Suspension - categorically not true that the dampers will necessarily be done at 20 years. Also, many did not originally have Monroe. Mine is 94 C4 @ +100k with original Boge shocks operating exactly as designed still at 24 years old. Been on a shock test this month at Centre Gravity and passed with flying colours. No rust, no leaks, no issues. (Possibly Monroe's would not have lasted so well, admittedly).

Buy on condition.
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orangefender
Silverstone


Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 106



PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all. A really helpful steer. I’m comparing a modified against a stock, so need to find out more about the stock car’s history I think.

I’ve also noticed some changes to the bodywork (front bumber and rear spolier) which was presumably done prior to a respray. There isn’t an invoice for this work.

The reference to SVP caught my eye as they installed the majority of the mods. A quick search revealed some mixed reviews. Should that put me off?
 
  
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crash7
Montreal


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 572



PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
crash7 wrote:

Suspension, the cars are circa 20 years old, the original dampers will be shot, Porsche no longer make the original Monroe dampers,


Suspension - categorically not true that the dampers will necessarily be done at 20 years. Also, many did not originally have Monroe. Mine is 94 C4 @ +100k with original Boge shocks operating exactly as designed still at 24 years old. Been on a shock test this month at Centre Gravity and passed with flying colours. No rust, no leaks, no issues. (Possibly Monroe's would not have lasted so well, admittedly).

Buy on condition.


So as you categorically saying that all dampers that are 20 years old are not going to need to be changed?

Or categorically that some may need to be changed? Dont know

You have taken what I said totally out of contex in the relevance to this thread.
 
  
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1502
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crash7 wrote:
Tobesetc wrote:
crash7 wrote:

Suspension, the cars are circa 20 years old, the original dampers will be shot, Porsche no longer make the original Monroe dampers,


Suspension - categorically not true that the dampers will necessarily be done at 20 years. Also, many did not originally have Monroe. Mine is 94 C4 @ +100k with original Boge shocks operating exactly as designed still at 24 years old. Been on a shock test this month at Centre Gravity and passed with flying colours. No rust, no leaks, no issues. (Possibly Monroe's would not have lasted so well, admittedly).

Buy on condition.


So as you categorically saying that all dampers that are 20 years old are not going to need to be changed?

Or categorically that some may need to be changed? Dont know

You have taken what I said totally out of contex in the relevance to this thread.


Sorry, yes I did a bit! I agree with 90% of what you said, probably 100% of what you meant. All I'm adding is that 20 year old shocks are not necessarily shot. Though I agree, it's likely true quite often.

Agree wholeheartedly with everything else! Sorry, meant to be clear was agreeing with 90%.
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6288
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

orangefender wrote:
The reference to SVP caught my eye as they installed the majority of the mods. A quick search revealed some mixed reviews. Should that put me off?


Ask WhiteKnight Dont know

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