She''s in at Hartech getting the full £10k rebuild...

Alfaian said:

Phil 997 said:

medmick said:

Phil 997 said:

medmick said:

Phil, were those Chinese parts put in by the Porsche indie that you bought the car from?

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It would seem so Mick , but at who's request I dont know, and I am sure they would never have anticipated what would happen mate . So I can't really blame anyone for being tight with the exhaust budget :thumb:

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Trouble is, i get my 911 serviced there!

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And so did I mate for many years until James started out on his own doing mobile Porsche services and stuff. I have no reason to think its their fault or blame them, its just an in hindsight mistake for using unbranded cheap aftermarket parts from the Far East , eventually we will learn in the UK to buy things and buy them once, but to do that we need to stop buying Chinese goods.

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Hi phil. Did you get the engine tetracleaned at all ?

I know you had it done on the gen 1 . I believe they are prone to destroying cats ? Meow

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Iain, I didn't have either tetra cleaned as they use harsh chemicals that as you say have a habit of causing internal corrosion to an engine , I used a water only based hydroclean that was done on both cars by Topgear who are exhaust manufacturers and told me the issues with the systems that use chemicals . So pretty sure its not that ,but an interesting thought for anyone that has used a chemical based engine decoke on their car. :thumb:


https://www.topgear.co.uk/hydroflow

Hi phil, it's interesting because a good friend of mine owns his own workshop ( local garage) and has a good rep around these parts. He's known as a "bit expensive " too but, he's always packed with work. Ranging from run of the mill to Audi rs engine work etc and he's done some minor work on my 911.

Anyway, he's had a few cars in that have had these cleaning machines put on and almost every issue is burnt valve/s . They ignite unburnt carbon around the valves and top of the piston causing it to overheat. So he says.

If it can burn valves out then surely it could kill the cats :hand:

bazhart said:

Before all the hysterics about scare mongering etc please understand this is an information source and that we are just providing the evidence we have accumulated, our interpretation of it and in so doing – inviting more evidence to be posted from which we may all get a better understanding of the situation.


Baz

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Im happy to admit ive learnt a lot from reading your posts and i would just like to add that whilst ive herd of 1 case of an engine problem with these cars ( outside of here ) ive never actually seen one so this is pretty dam rare .

Alfaian said:

Hi phil, it's interesting because a good friend of mine owns his own workshop ( local garage) and has a good rep around these parts. He's known as a "bit expensive " too but, he's always packed with work. Ranging from run of the mill to Audi rs engine work etc and he's done some minor work on my 911.

Anyway, he's had a few cars in that have had these cleaning machines put on and almost every issue is burnt valve/s . They ignite unburnt carbon around the valves and top of the piston causing it to overheat. So he says.

If it can burn valves out then surely it could kill the cats :hand:

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Its a very interesting theory mate and not one I can confidently comment on, but it is worth consideration as a potential risk to any cars. but it needs someone with lots more knowledge than me about them and what they may or mayn't do to an engine. :dont know: :?:

Thanks DEMORT - Of course we receive a very distorted view of typical engine problem numbers - because so many come to us with them - but the benefit of that is that we can analyse the failures on a lot of failed engines, draw technical conclusions from them and invest in R & D to understand them early on when the numbers help separate one off's from repeated issues. This is an essential part in developing better outcomes - because your own excellent knowlege base comes partly from your own experiences and you will know that it is much easier to give good advice and it is so much easier to find technical answers when you know the cause and what to avoid.


So our advice about avoiding too fast a sprited drive from cold and changing to thicker oils as mileages increase is well based on a lot of experience and evidential observations and measurements.


I thought that the Gen 2 pistons we found that had worn off the new plating (that we had already experienced and found less hard than the older plating) and that then scored bores when the plating thickness had worn off (so the piston was an alloy face running in Alusil - which we know will score) was a good technical conclusion.


I think it means that the Gen 2 engines will eventually start to fail when they have been in the hands of a number of impatient aggressive drivers (possibly always running on recomended oil grades from new) at very much higher mileages than the Gen 1's and that many will never fail (as most owners drive very modestly).

All good news - except one day in the distant future for those unfortunate owners that start to experience failures when I hope it is nice to know that there is a solution that has been under test for several years and might be a better fix than simply replacing failed with the same solution and in the process may even improve performance.


It took a number of years before the independent sector experienced the Gen 1 IMS bearing, "D" chunk and bore score failures - but we were ready when it happened and it will take even longer for these Gen 2 engines to fail in numbers that get general attention - and when they do we will once again be in a good position to offer an alternative.


Meanwhile we hope our advice will extend that time for owners of a very good and reliable sports car indeed.

Baz

Phil 997 said:

Chris_in_the_UK said:

Any updates Phil?

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Hi Chris, They have started rebuilding and have called me about a few ancillary engine items that should be considered as they are showing signs of wear etc lots of hoses , tandem pump (no surprise there lol) the high pressure pump had a fault code before they stripped it so I have agreed to those items plus a few more .So the car really should be good for another 10 years as its basically a new engine and with the rebuilt gearbox clutch flywheel and coolant pipes all changed this year ,plus the addition of the cargraphic 200 cell cats and headers to complete the cargraphic exhaust set up ,I hopefully will have a couple of years of low running costs and big grins. Its surprising how quickly after the initial shock of the cost of a rebuild you get your head around it and see all the benefits of a newly rebuilt engine etc.I guess helped by the fact that I had 4.5 years of very low running costs (mods aside) with my gen 1 and intention to stay with the car for at least another 3 or 4 years as my confidence in the marque is very high and do realise that the clutch/flywheel do wear and need replacing the coolant pipes also needed doing on the gen1 and is not unusual on a nearly 10 yr old car the engine was not a design fault and down to a cheap aftermarket part used by the previous owner leaving just the normally very reliable gearbox as being a little unusual a failure but certainly not unheard of . :thumb: :thumb:

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Triggers Broom !!!

Phil, can i ask why you didn't go for a 100 cell cat?

medmick said:

Phil 997 said:

Chris_in_the_UK said:

Any updates Phil?

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Hi Chris, They have started rebuilding and have called me about a few ancillary engine items that should be considered as they are showing signs of wear etc lots of hoses , tandem pump (no surprise there lol) the high pressure pump had a fault code before they stripped it so I have agreed to those items plus a few more .So the car really should be good for another 10 years as its basically a new engine and with the rebuilt gearbox clutch flywheel and coolant pipes all changed this year ,plus the addition of the cargraphic 200 cell cats and headers to complete the cargraphic exhaust set up ,I hopefully will have a couple of years of low running costs and big grins. Its surprising how quickly after the initial shock of the cost of a rebuild you get your head around it and see all the benefits of a newly rebuilt engine etc.I guess helped by the fact that I had 4.5 years of very low running costs (mods aside) with my gen 1 and intention to stay with the car for at least another 3 or 4 years as my confidence in the marque is very high and do realise that the clutch/flywheel do wear and need replacing the coolant pipes also needed doing on the gen1 and is not unusual on a nearly 10 yr old car the engine was not a design fault and down to a cheap aftermarket part used by the previous owner leaving just the normally very reliable gearbox as being a little unusual a failure but certainly not unheard of . :thumb: :thumb:

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Triggers Broom !!!

Phil, can i ask why you didn't go for a 100 cell cat?

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Triggers Broom :floor: :floor: :floor: :floor:

100 Cell cats, mainly as my local MOT guy is friendly but not that friendly :grin: and second dont think Cargraphic do a 100 cell option for the gen2 and third I really dont know enough about exhausts to know which argument is right the , you need back pressure , you dont need back pressure . to get the best from the engine :?: :dont know: :?:

Baz, at what mileage do you recommend to start using a thicker oil and any in particular?

@ bazhart

I can honestly say i have learnt more from reading your posts explaining these faults than i did at Porsche in over 10 years and rather a lot of training cources in that time .

Im no engine man , more diagnostics , but your explainations have explained it too me .. to the point i have explained it at work to make everyone aware of a fast warm up on a gen 2 and what it does , now that you have done the hard work then people like me can understand it and pass it on to owners .

There may be a small oil jet problem from what i herd on 1 engine but thats unconfirmed.

My comment was mainly because of the last time .. or the first time you mentioned this and the .. er .. worry / comments of people ... i didnt want that happening again.

People like us do our best to help the comunity .. last time .. not so good shall we say .

yes i know you run a business but you still do your best to explain what you have found in a logical manner .. and you are also teaching some old dogs here

If i may ... :worship:

@ MR997

We base it on 50K but go with 5/40 mobil 1 instead of 0/40 which an OPC will use all the time reguardless of the milage .

MR997 said:

Baz, at what mileage do you recommend to start using a thicker oil and any in particular?

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I'd echo that, 55k with an engine rebuilt at 48k, so 6k since rebuild - about to service so what oil is recommended?

If it were mine, Millers Oils NANODRIVE CFS 5w-40 NT Full Synthetic Engine Oil would be the way to go.

From my conversations with Baz and Grant it seems the consensus is ideally change to millers nano + oil and engines over 50k should use 5W40 and engines over 70k ideally change to 10w50 .
Its difficult for Baz or Grant to promote a particular product on an open forum even though they have no links to Millers its just over time they seem to have found this works best for them. I am not technical but its something to do with the thicker oil and the nano particles keeping a better space between the at risk components in the engine. I have used it for years on both my gen1 and gen2 and my gen1 was scoped when sold and was clean as a whistle. my gen2 failed but it was not a fault of the engine or the oil and the reason is well documented further up this thread.
I have also found if you sign up to Opie oils (who seem to be the cheapest for millers anyway) notifications they often run promos on millers and can get up to 20% off , I have brought 10 ltrs for under £100 when the best promos are on. :thumb: :thumb: