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Jay Are
Trainee


Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 84
Location: Kesselchen


PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject: ECU setup on 996 turbo engine - Info required pls Reply with quote

Evening all. Any help greatly appreciated from those that have played with aftermarket ECU settings.

We're coming close to trying to start the project car with the Metzger engine in and it's only now I realise just how complex getting the electronics right is.

I am learning as we go so forgive me if the terminology is out. There is an aftermarket ECU involved so we are starting from scratch.

We have set TDC on the light and established 274 degrees offset,
not 276 as expected. Fire order should be 162435 as per standard and cam triggers are 60-2 as I understand it?

Having checked injectors and coil packs by ear, all are firing the right cylinders (the loom is also new as it's not in a 996) I guess Cam sensors have to be on the right bank is a given and we can start without setting logic on the Variocam plus for start/ tick over.

Is there a factory spec sheet on this as I'd hate to get it wrong now. Injectors are standard (new) (450cc from memory) but we have a twin screw in-tank lift pump and a Bosch 044 in the mix so we are way over 3.8 Bar. Plugs are new.

If we have timed on a light and were at TDC on crank pulley then we can set 0 degrees on #1 and go from there on ignition I assume? Someone mentioned this has to be checked through the plug hole as it may be TDC on #4 but I'm not sure I understand how/why Porsche would do that???

Once done, are we missing anything? We are assuming a 5% throttle position for start up but I have no info on factory injector loads etc. to extrapolate from either. The car will get tuned eventually but for day 1, does anyone have info/ specs about just recreating what Porsche's settings would have been when the engine was in the 996tt??

Question

Cheers,

Jay
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987 turbo S
 
  
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DynoMike
Barcelona


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1485
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: ECU setup on 996 turbo engine - Info required pls Reply with quote

Jay Are wrote:
Evening all. Any help greatly appreciated from those that have played with aftermarket ECU settings.

We're coming close to trying to start the project car with the Metzger engine in and it's only now I realise just how complex getting the electronics right is.

I am learning as we go so forgive me if the terminology is out. There is an aftermarket ECU involved so we are starting from scratch.

We have set TDC on the light and established 274 degrees offset,
not 276 as expected. Fire order should be 162435 as per standard and cam triggers are 60-2 as I understand it?

Having checked injectors and coil packs by ear, all are firing the right cylinders (the loom is also new as it's not in a 996) I guess Cam sensors have to be on the right bank is a given and we can start without setting logic on the Variocam plus for start/ tick over.

Is there a factory spec sheet on this as I'd hate to get it wrong now. Injectors are standard (new) (450cc from memory) but we have a twin screw in-tank lift pump and a Bosch 044 in the mix so we are way over 3.8 Bar. Plugs are new.

If we have timed on a light and were at TDC on crank pulley then we can set 0 degrees on #1 and go from there on ignition I assume? Someone mentioned this has to be checked through the plug hole as it may be TDC on #4 but I'm not sure I understand how/why Porsche would do that???

Once done, are we missing anything? We are assuming a 5% throttle position for start up but I have no info on factory injector loads etc. to extrapolate from either. The car will get tuned eventually but for day 1, does anyone have info/ specs about just recreating what Porsche's settings would have been when the engine was in the 996tt??

Question

Cheers,

Jay



Which ECU are you going to run this on? Setting a standalone up for the first time is a lot of work..

TDC is always cylinder 1, have never encountered an ecu that is any different. You must establish that your offset is correct, but you must establish the cam flag or latch points first, in order to fire the cylinders on the correct cycle.

If it is a Syvecs unit, there are a good many tutorial videos online. For other ecus, you will have to do your research.

You will also need coil saturation information, which can be approximated by measuring the primary resistance of the coil packs. As a very basic rule, the higher the primary resistance, the higher the coil on time. 2ms gets most coils to spark but be very, very careful if the resistance is very low.

Have fun! It is a long road to get all parameters correct. Oh, and about 10-15 degrees of initial throttle angle will get it started once you have correctly populated the tables.

You must make sure that the PiD is set correctly for the throttle to work satisfactorily (assuming your ecu is just blank to start with), which can be observed by watching the throttle plate and watching how it behaves to inputs.
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Jay Are
Trainee


Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 84
Location: Kesselchen


PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike.

I will speak with the guys in the morning.

I tried Syvecs but they had been struggling with a similar application in the UAE at the time to no avail. Not sure if they have solved it yet. The issue being I wanted CAN functionality to interface with the chassis... It's been a long haul with lots of research and translation.

The ECU has base info for a 996 but being the Metzger, I'd like to ensure the setup on the turbo was the same out of the factory and not make any assumptions as I know the internals are very different.

Now that I think about it though, the key difference is with the 'bottom end' I guess so it may be very similar for the rest, Porsche being Porsche.

Onward we go. We'll get there!

Thanks again.

J
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zweistein
Newbie


Joined: 28 Nov 2018
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:10 pm    Post subject: ecu on cayman turbo Reply with quote

Hello,
I also have a cayman 987 bi turbo up and running. I am using a strongly modified M97.21 engine , you use a Mezger 996 turbo as it seems.

I was thinking myself about using a 996tt ECU to control my engine. Mappjng woulld be relativly easy as 996tt ECU has fully documented damos.
This would imply using 996tt MAF and wideband lambdas and a few relaitvly easy changes to the engine wire loom.

Issues will be interaction of the 996tt ECU with the CAN drive and other can signals. The cayman 987 ecu will send CAN messages to control the electric front ventilators, the clima control (switced off when engine overheats) and to PSM.
All this is difficult to implement in the 996tt ECU.

On the other hand you could modify the 987 ECU . Mapping fueling and knock control is straighforward, VariocamPlus is almost the same, so you could probably leave the NA tables.
wiring of the 987 ECU is almost identical to the 996tt ECU.

Control of the N75 must be done externally with a custom made electronics, I use arduino for this.
The hard core gui could probably debug the ECU assembly in IDA pro and adaot the assembler code.

Still open question is the PSM-ECU interaction , which will not work between a 996tt ECU and a 987 PSM.
Currently I am investigating here to find out if using a CAN Bus sniffer and message translater can be used.

For yoru 996tt engine in a cayman: Easier solution is probably to use all electronics from a 996tt donor car.

regards
Andreas

(P.S. my 987 turbo is documented, google "pff.de italian job")
 
  
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Jay Are
Trainee


Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 84
Location: Kesselchen


PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just been checking your build out. Would love to see more. Turbo's look amazing.

The CAN is a total arse if you try to get the two generatioms talking. 996 was 'almost' CAN whereas the 997 uses it for everything.

Stick to 987 997 technology and it should be easier than mine was. I have an aftermarket ECU in there now.

Pm me. We have learned loads about the 997 CAN

Glad its not just me playing this crazy game!!

Cool
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