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spongebob squarepants
Estoril


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 3885
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
991 for me.
The slingshot effect of a 911 I find intoxicating. We have up this way a bypass with several large roundabouts and I love that feeling of each of them as I'm catapulted down the road.


I'm reaching intergalactic speeds on these very roundabouts, and the C4S with the crazy grip it offers makes it all the more fun Thumb I need a turbo to go quicker Grin

T8, im struggling to see (as nice as a Cayman is) how you could drop all those Horsepowers (and particulary Torque) even to a 991, never mind a Cayman! I suppose it's just a different type of ride Thumb
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Cameo
Trainee


Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Posts: 95
Location: South Coast


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
Terry interestingly 2 years on and what does the market currently reflect .
the 991.1 has dropped to 55k and you can also find them cheaper than that .
the cayman has also dropped by a similar % so it was wise to wait the two years and it not be you suffering the depreciation . BUT and its a big Butt your turbo is now worth more than it was 2 years ago. Grin so also a wise desission to hang on . BUT again what does that tell us about the next two years , yes currently the 997 turbos have flattened out but they are not going backwards , the 991 and cayman surely have a little more depreciation although I suspect not much for the 991.1 as I am still confident we will see the 991.2 prices drop past the 991.1 as it will be seen as the last of the big engine NA propper 911s .my gut feel is that the the 3ltr turbo cars will become the modern 996 and be a bit unloved as a used car for a few years . that inbetween period where electric is round the corner but those that dont want electric will want a big engined 911. this is just my opinion as I am the same as everyone else and really dont know what the furture trends will be . who knows £2.50 a ltr fuel may make everyone want the smaller engined cars Grin but hopefully what you will grasp from my waffle is that IMO the very best thing to do is to keep your Turbo WATCH minimal if any depreciation keep the rest of the money in the bank , drive what will be seen in the future as the best all round 911 ever. failing that and you have a need to throw some money away then the next best option would be the 991.1 3.8S which I believe will be seen as the last propper big engine 911 Thumb Thumb


Phil makes some excellent points (athough I think he really mean 991.1 GTS Floor ). I went into my OPC intending to but a 981 Cayman and was disappointed - don’t even get me started on the 718. I ended up going for a 991.1 because it was so much better. For an additional £15K its definately worth it.

Having said that the wisest thing to do is drive a 981 Cayman/Boxster and once your disappointed with the performance (and, perhaps controversially, I include the GT4 in that statement) save your money and keep the Turbo Thumb
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Albionmuz
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that so many people think that it has to be a 911. I believe the 968, when it was released was actually quicker around the Nurburgring than the same year 911. Didn’t stop the 968 being dismissed by 911 owners as “not a real Porsche, engine in the wrong place.” Seems the Cayman suffers the same snobbery?
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Albionmuz wrote:
Interesting that so many people think that it has to be a 911. I believe the 968, when it was released was actually quicker around the Nurburgring than the same year 911. Didn’t stop the 968 being dismissed by 911 owners as “not a real Porsche, engine in the wrong place.” Seems the Cayman suffers the same snobbery?

You are right to some extent, but do not think it is actually "snobbery".

The 911 has 50+ years of design evolution and racing heritage, so owners are buying into this provenance as much as the outright performance. There is really no other model range in the world that has a such a long and illustrious DNA thread. The Porsche marketeers know this and have always charged a premium price for it. nooo
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Cameo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Albionmuz wrote:
Interesting that so many people think that it has to be a 911. I believe the 968, when it was released was actually quicker around the Nurburgring than the same year 911. Didn’t stop the 968 being dismissed by 911 owners as “not a real Porsche, engine in the wrong place.” Seems the Cayman suffers the same snobbery?


I don’t think anyone has made either of those accusation either explicitly or implied Question
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Albionmuz
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameo wrote:
Albionmuz wrote:
Interesting that so many people think that it has to be a 911. I believe the 968, when it was released was actually quicker around the Nurburgring than the same year 911. Didn’t stop the 968 being dismissed by 911 owners as “not a real Porsche, engine in the wrong place.” Seems the Cayman suffers the same snobbery?


I don’t think anyone has made either of those accusation either explicitly or implied Question


Not on this thread but having had a 968 for 17 years I’d say it’s a very common observation from 911 owners, I speak from experience on this Very Happy

I have no experience of a Cayman or a Boxster so am only querying whether this perceived inferiority is expressed by 911 owners.
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T8
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for your input - much appreciated

Cameo wrote:


........ the wisest thing to do is drive a 981 Cayman/Boxster and once your disappointed with the performance (and, perhaps controversially, I include the GT4 in that statement) save your money and keep the Turbo Thumb



Unless it is forced upon me by no-one actually buying it, keeping my Turbo is not an option I'm considering. nooo

Over the last few weeks I've viewed several 991s (3.4s and 3.8s) that could be bought for £55k and have concluded that for that money I'd have to an 'S'.

Unfortunately none of those I've seen have been the right car for me so I'm left with the choice of stretching the budget a little or waiting a bit longer. In the current market the latter option is the decision I've made.

However, in the meantime, I stumbled across a Cayman S that is really testing my 'fantastic sports car but it's not a 911' resolve to the limit. The car in question is in a very rare colour combination and highly spec'd but more importantly it's a year newer, lower mileage and £14k cheaper than any 991 I've viewed.

Sitting behind the wheel it didn't feel any different to a 991 and when I took it for a cross-country drive I certainly wouldn't have got back any faster in any other car.

My conclusion is that for £40k a 2013 Cayman S is a very viable alternative to a 2012 991 that would cost around £55k or an equivalent 991S that would cost nearer to £60k.

The internal conflict I'm currently wrestling with is whether to leave a Porsche shaped gap in my life for a while or to go back and buy the beautiful 'jump in and drive' sports car as a 6-12 month 'stop-gap'.
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DrJimBone
Silverstone


Joined: 12 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If, as some have said, the Cayman is a more rewarding drive hobbled by lower power (so lacking the 'shove') the best thing to do would be to stick 500 bhp in the Cayman and have the best of every world... Question
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DrJimBone
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
whether to leave a Porsche shaped gap in my life for a while or to go back and buy the beautiful 'jump in and drive' sports car as a 6-12 month 'stop-gap'.


+1 for the stop gap... Wink Have some fun... You live once, right? Dont know
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most of us one here agree the cayman is a very good sports car and the mid engine actually gives it more driver focus especially over the 991 version of the 911 . I am not a 911 snob and have it due to needing the rear seats for the girls , Terry I would be swung by an unusual colour high spec cayman if I didnt need the rear seats and could get a newer car for 15k less money, after all how often do you /did you use all the power from the turbo, as we get older I am not sure we need the huge power as the fun becomes fast driving the winding roads in a well balanced car rather than doing a Santa pod on the M1 Grin
And really do you care what others think about it not being a 911 in the same way as a 911 isnt a veyron theres always others opinions and always something better unless you have 2mill for a car Grin ,I am also not convinsed that a well set up cayman with a remap and upgraded engine mounts, mapped PDK etc wouldn't actually be faster round a track than a 991.1 3.8 in stock form. Cool Thumb
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mikeluke
Barcelona


Joined: 03 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sapphire Blue, for example, Phil?

Smile
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FZP
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrJimBone wrote:
T8 wrote:
whether to leave a Porsche shaped gap in my life for a while or to go back and buy the beautiful 'jump in and drive' sports car as a 6-12 month 'stop-gap'.


+1 for the stop gap... Wink Have some fun... You live once, right? Dont know

I quite fancy the idea of an E92 M3 for Mrs P in the future, what are your view on Mcars? For 6 months or not a bad call surely?
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BK911
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Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 2013 E92 M3.. it was fun for a while, engine is epic but it’s not a Porsche. I prefer my 996, it just feels more special. M3 will leave non GT 996 and 997’s on track.. they’re very fast but a bit boring at normal speeds. I found myself changing gears when I didn’t need to create drama!
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BK911
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8, I drove a 991 RS from Stuttgart to Milan and back in May this year. Did a pass or two, some autobahn (managed 175MPH Bandit )... it was incredible. What a car. If I lived in Germany I’d pay the extra and go 991s, it’s worth it.

BUT, we live in England that’s becoming more and more frustrating. There’s even talk of dashcam grassers being able to download onto a website for the Police to use against us.

As you said, the Cayman feels very similar. They’re in fact brilliantly designed and a joy at any speed. I’ve just had my first weekend with one and love it as as much as I love the 991 RS. Unbelievable value for money.

If you’re not bothered about that extra bit of performance why not give the 981 Cayman a go?! I could have bought a 30k Mile leggy GT3 but have bought a GT4 that you’d honestly struggle to tell isn’t brand new. It gleams and that in itself is hugely satisfying. The cockpit is essentially the same and handling at all speeds fab. Im kicking myself for not string a standard S instead of my old M3.. that was a missed opportunity.

Get one and then trade it in against a 991 when they eventually dip in the next 18 months...??!!
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coullstar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a tough one. I tend to agree that from a pure fun and driving feedback I'd be going for something with two seats and midengined. Then there is iconic 911 thing that just grabs people.

All rounder it's the 911 but if it's for pure driving fun I'd be going Cayman. In fact I think the Gt4 is the nicest well proportioned car they have built in a long time.
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askgeez
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy a cayman with modest miles on the clock.

Possibly plan a load of eurotrips , NC500 , Wales...stick a few 000 miles on it
Not going to depreciate too much from £40k ? Dont know

You might even keep for longer than a year, for fuller impact of 992 on used 991 prices/availability to filter through .
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KJD
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck Terry, it’s a nice problem to have Very Happy
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spongebob squarepants
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:
Buy a cayman with modest miles on the clock.

Possibly plan a load of eurotrips , NC500 , Wales...stick a few 000 miles on it
Not going to depreciate too much from £40k ? Dont know

You might even keep for longer than a year, for fuller impact of 992 on used 991 prices/availability to filter through .


Unfortunately you can’t win on a short term own, then sell again trade in. I should know Grin it would need to be buy cheap private? But buying and selling privately especially in the Porsche world is a nightmare.

Your just losing money for your new motor Sad Ive had a few prices on mine and compared to what it would retail at theirs a big difference. 911v as ever have made a good offer, just need to think what to do, like Terry I have a stunning motor that I want to swap for something else, and really as I’m about to park him up in the garage for winter nows the best time Grin
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T8
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:
Buy a cayman with modest miles on the clock.

Possibly plan a load of eurotrips , NC500 , Wales...stick a few 000 miles on it
Not going to depreciate too much from £40k ? Dont know

You might even keep for longer than a year, for fuller impact of 992 on used 991 prices/availability to filter through .


We must have spent too much time together as my latest thinking is exactly that. Smile

With the uncertainty about what motoring to Europe might be like next year taking the opportunity to plan a few UK trips has never been more right.
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T8
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:


.......... I stumbled across a Cayman S that is really testing my 'fantastic sports car but it's not a 911' resolve to the limit. The car in question is in a very rare colour combination and highly spec'd but more importantly it's a year newer, lower mileage and £14k cheaper than any 991 I've viewed.

Sitting behind the wheel it didn't feel any different to a 991 and when I took it for a cross-country drive I certainly wouldn't have got back any faster in any other car.

My conclusion is that for £40k a 2013 Cayman S is a very viable alternative to a 2012 991 that would cost around £55k or an equivalent 991S that would cost nearer to £60k.

The internal conflict I'm currently wrestling with is whether to leave a Porsche shaped gap in my life for a while or to go back and buy the beautiful 'jump in and drive' sports car as a 6-12 month 'stop-gap'.



This was the 981S I stumbled across whilst looking for a 991S.

I left it at 12 noon on Saturday and, after much deliberation, rang up to buy it this morning only to find that it sold at 12.30 to someone who'd been waiting patiently for me to say yes or no.



I'm far more disappointed than I ever thought I would be but that's all down to missing that specific car.

The fact that I deliberated so long over such a brilliant example of a Cayman S confirms to me, once-and-for-all, that my next Porsche will definitely be a 991.
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