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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3551
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the time you get all that work done it may be more cost effective to buy a 997.1 GT3. With the mods you've mentioned, it will render the C2S worthless in a retail sense.
A GT3 will still be a GT3 at the end of it. Just a thought
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5184
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracking a std 997 will cost you. You will do the brakes in no time and the amount of money to prep it will be down the hole and could jave been spent on a GT3 in the first place. This before you factor in de valuing the car by extensive modding and that is before the concern of bore score and ims even gets thought about. Its a road car, too heavy to do many laps. I just wouldn’t bother. It wont feel like a GT3 either really. On a circuit it will reveal all its worst 911 characteristics fairly quickly, understeer, snap oversteer, brake fade..why do you think the GT3 has all that stuff taken care of in the first place?

What you need to experience is the feeling of grip, or rather when its going to let go (no grip) To do this you need a car with some (track type) grip to begin with! A road spec carrera will feel as soft as anything compared to almost anything that has a decent track suspension, brakes and tyres.

If money’s not an issue go and do lots of arrive and drive caterham days with Book a track. If it is something to worry somewhat about look for a track prepped e46 manual M3, you should pick them up something very decent for less than 20k and they are, with tried, trusted and well documented modifications, beautifully balanced and you’d learn lots reasonably quickly without too many worries about crashing it.

My 2p
 
  
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jonjames91
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing. It seems there are many options and I’ll give serious consideration to everything being suggested. I am very impressed by how helpful, informative and friendly everyone is being, so thanks for that.

So remapping a GT3 for less power? Is it possible to take out enough power from the car to make it a good learner vehicle and still maintain the handling characteristics? The concept ticks quite a few boxes for me I have to say. I took a quick look on pistonheads website and couldn’t find a PDK 997 GT3, only the manual gearbox. I’ll do more research. Are there any other variants you would recommend that have the PDK gearbox?

It’s worth pointing out that I’d need to take a GT3 to a garage to get the roll cage, seats and harnesses installed.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15781
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonjames91 wrote:


...... I took a quick look on pistonheads website and couldn’t find a PDK 997 GT3, only the manual gearbox. I’ll do more research. Are there any other variants you would recommend that have the PDK gearbox?



You won't find a PDK 997 GT3.

Your initial PDK criteria is why I suggested a Gen2 997.

You'll be able to find one old enough to buy and make all the track-car conversions for a sensible sum. The 3.6 Gen 2 unit is apparently a very nice one and is also not prone to the issues surrounding the Gen1 car.
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15279
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
jonjames91 wrote:


...... I took a quick look on pistonheads website and couldn’t find a PDK 997 GT3, only the manual gearbox. I’ll do more research. Are there any other variants you would recommend that have the PDK gearbox?



You won't find a PDK 997 GT3.

Your initial PDK criteria is why I suggested a Gen2 997.

You'll be able to find one old enough to buy and make all the track-car conversions for a sensible sum. The 3.6 Gen 2 unit is apparently a very nice one and is also not prone to the issues surrounding the Gen1 car.


Agree with Terry no PDK 997 GT3s , I still think your best option is buy a car for mid 30k spend 10k getting it track ready, so your still only into half the money of a GT3 with 99% of the fun, Also half the learning and enjoyment is planning what your going to do to the car, understanding the bits your doing and what they do will increase your knowledge and fun when driving the car.
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markturner1960
Monza


Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 215
Location: London UK

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems you are dead set on getting a Porsche to "learn" in........

My advice, get a cheap race car ( PT sports cars have a great boxster race car for example) or an ex race Caterham and do the learning in that, as you will crash and you will make mistakes. By all means buy the GT3 now and keep it for thos especial drives and for when you start to feel more comfortable driving it hard. This will only come with experience and practice in something that will teach you all about car control, like a Caterham. This knowledge will then transfer very easily to when you drive the 911.

You wont be able to fully understand and so drive the car properly until you really know this stuff and a late model 911 costing 70K upwards is not the ideal learning place.

Unless of course money is no object, but I am assuming that if you have a bit, you do appreciate its hard to come by and you wont want to waste it....

Above all, get the tuition, more than anything get an instructor you get on with and take them every track day. I use John Hutchinson, he is great and will travel to you, find him here: http://www.dorchester-search.co.uk/polepositions/

And no PDK FFS..... its great, but if you wanna learn to be a proper driver, get 3 pedals
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911UK
Porsche Community
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 10150
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1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nothing wrong with learning in a 911 and a GT3 to that point

that's what I did and I certainly did want or need a Caterham, only had a need for one car and that was the 911

for driver training, it can only be CAT http://catdrivertraining.co.uk/
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markturner1960
Monza


Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 215
Location: London UK

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, however, he wont be learning as much in a new GT3 with PDK and all the driver aids as he would in something more analogue. If he is dead set on learning in a Porsche then surely an older manual car is going to be more useful.....
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jonjames91
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My logic for starting this journey in a 911 over any other ‘learner’ vehicle is that I want, not only to learn driver skills but also understand the specific nuances of the 911 chassis and rear engine combination. The idea being that the eventual transfer from mid powered 911 to high powered 911 is as seamless as possible. I spent the day at Silverstone driving both manual and PDK GT 911s and that reinforced my preference for a PDK transmission.

There are no doubts in my mind that the end goal is to drive 911s on the track and nearly 40 years after falling in love with them I think I’ve waited long enough to be able to drive one. So yeah, there are logical and emotional factors involved in my decision.

My latest thinking is still a 997 GEN 2 tracked prepard by RPM Technik and the CAT Driver Training five day Acadamey Programme with additional track tuition days as and when. I’m likely to have the car in Northern France for this year and will be looking to start the tuition over there so that should be interesting as I don’t speak French!

I am very fortunate and blessed to be able to commit money to this project and the above approach fits within my budget. I don’t have the view that money is no object and deffinately subscribe to the view that the best value for money is in driver instruction.

Again, many thanks for your posts. I’m deffinately finding all opinions valuable and will be sure to update this thread when things start rolling.
 
  
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Diggermeister
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 453



PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any mechanically sound, 2WD 997 (might be best going with Gen 2 to avoid early model engine issues and also, in any case, to get the PDK gearbox you want) is going to give you a very good basis to start from.

The other place which a lot of people swear by for chassis set up is Center Gravity in Atherstone: http://www.centregravity.co.uk/
 
  
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MaxA
Albert Park


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1566
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the OP got his track prepped 997?
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G2
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1444



PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
"Cheap" car and expensive tuition Thumb



Agree X10. Nothing like paying someone by the hour to scream “Faster, faster, more, more, not like that like this..FASTER!!” Whilst you are swearing and sweating in a nomex romper suit👍

If you want to look good spend some money on your helmet.....

......I’ll stop now as it’s a long train ride and the beer is flowing....
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Jay.
Montreal


Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 568
Location: Brize Norton


PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll gain a lot of experience driving any cars as many have said on this thread, but I completely agree that if you want to learn the 911 then you need to learn in a 911 - an Mx5/Caterham etc have completely different driving styles and you'll end up "unlearning" a lot of these when you move up to a GT3
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