Elmstone Classics - Carrera 2 Manual

Gunscrossed · 9 Aug 2018

OP, there's a nice looking early car in the classifieds here for £12.5k
Just needs ambers

spongebob squarepants · 9 Aug 2018

Ericf said:
Hi All

Has anyone ever heard of/bought from these guys? They have an 03 Arctic Silver Carrera 2 manual for sale at 19,995. It's done 69,000 miles with new clutch, IMS etc.

Seems good to me, does the price seem in the right place?

I thought my sensible side had put this idea to bed for a while but it won't go away and I keep looking!

Thanks.

E

OP the market is currently dead, as others have said 20k for a 996 without a rebuild is way over the top, especially in this climate.

Most will post based on their own experience, ie buying a 996 without a rebuild, and as yet having no problems, draw your own conclusions BUT when the recognized expert in the field says its not if but when, I (personally) would be buying with a rebuild only, and at 20k that's easy enough on a 996 :thumb: Good luck with whatever you decide :thumbs:

spongebob squarepants · 9 Aug 2018

Ericf said:
Hi All

Has anyone ever heard of/bought from these guys? They have an 03 Arctic Silver Carrera 2 manual for sale at 19,995. It's done 69,000 miles with new clutch, IMS etc.

Seems good to me, does the price seem in the right place?

I thought my sensible side had put this idea to bed for a while but it won't go away and I keep looking!

Thanks.

E

OP the market is currently dead, as others have said 20k for a 996 without a rebuild is way over the top, especially in this climate.

Most will post based on their own experience, ie buying a 996 without a rebuild, and as yet having no problems, draw your own conclusions BUT when the recognized expert in the field says its not if but when, I (personally) would be buying with a rebuild only, and at 20k that's easy enough on a 996 :thumb: Good luck with whatever you decide :thumbs:

Marky911 · 9 Aug 2018

Hmm, so the market is gradually being steered round to thinking "Only buy a rebuilt car", as it's a case of "when not if".

So if the only cars that end up selling are the rebuilt ones, who is it that ends up winning? The owners who spend £10k+ on a rebuild, maybe even a pre emptive one? The buyers who maybe pay a few grand more for a car as it's had the rebuild?

Or maybe the rebuilders doing the rebuilds.
Remind me again who is shouting the loudest about "when not if" and "pre-emptive rebuilds"....

Oh, rrriiiggghhhtt.

Some folk should just go and buy a nice new Golf R or something. Hassle free and with a nice safe warranty. Things are getting ridiculous. :frustrated:

I've owned 5 911s. 3 aircooled, 2 water. Which ones had rebuilds?
2 of the aircooled and the 3rd one was ready for one.

Porsche ownership costs money. Hang around these cars long enough and you'll get a big bill. It's pretty simple really.

Sorry for the hijack and rant OP.

Marky911 · 9 Aug 2018

Gunscrossed said:
OP, there's a nice looking early car in the classifieds here for £12.5k
Just needs ambers

No it doesn't. It needs a rebuild first. Keep up with what the people want man.
:grin:

That car ain't selling. Along with the other 95% on the market.

cvega · 9 Aug 2018

143k miles here. Still hasn't exploded. Should I buy a lottery ticket?! :floor:

spongebob squarepants · 9 Aug 2018

Marky911 said:
Hmm, so the market is gradually being steered round to thinking "Only buy a rebuilt car", as it's a case of "when not if".

So if the only cars that end up selling are the rebuilt ones, who is it that ends up winning? The owners who spend £10k+ on a rebuild, maybe even a pre emptive one? The buyers who maybe pay a few grand more for a car as it's had the rebuild?

Or maybe the rebuilders doing the rebuilds.
Remind me again who is shouting the loudest about "when not if" and "pre-emptive rebuilds"....

Oh, rrriiiggghhhtt.

Some folk should just go and buy a nice new Golf R or something. Hassle free and with a nice safe warranty. Things are getting ridiculous. :frustrated:

I've owned 5 911s. 3 aircooled, 2 water. Which ones had rebuilds?
2 of the aircooled and the 3rd one was ready for one.

Porsche ownership costs money. Hang around these cars long enough and you'll get a big bill. It's pretty simple really.

Sorry for the hijack and rant OP.

Marky just giving my opinion as were entitled to do on here (so I believe) :thumb: The OP was asking was the asking price on the car he was looking at reasonable? answer definitely no.

There's a huge difference between 'big bills' and engine rebuilds costing close to the value of the actual car (on a 996).

Personally I didn't buy a golf, I bought a 997.2 with an OPC warranty, which ill keep as long as I have the car. Other items that wear out such as discs and pads ill replace myself at no great cost, so I wont really be expecting any big bills :bye:

Marky911 · 9 Aug 2018

I know you don't drive a Golf Spongebob.

I was responding to the points you and others raise though about only buying a rebuilt car. It wasn't a pop at you personally, more a pop at the way some buyers are entering into prospective ownership.

I honestly think some people need to just look at a different brand or something.
I know what you're saying about rebuild cost vs car value, but it was exactly the same ten years ago for 3.2 Carreras and 964s. The only reason that is all forgotten is because those cars have luckily, rocketed in price.

I myself often call the M96 engine crap, but it's a risk/foible that I'm ok living with as the cars still offer a great driving and ownership experience when they're working.
Others may not be happy with the risks. That's fine but they need to buy a different car rather than expect every seller to have rebuilt their car to provide peace of mind for the next owner.

Would I be happy with a huge rebuild bill on my car? Of course not but like I say all engines wear out and need rebuilding. I don't know how long people expect a 20 year old, 100bhp per litre engine to last. 150k? 200k? Some will, some won't.

Anyway, apologies for my rant appearing to be aimed at you. It wasn't, I just quoted your post as you were the most recent poster to mention it.

I'm not usually ranty, but like I say it's starting to get ridiculous now, the hysteria around these cars.

spongebob squarepants · 9 Aug 2018

Marky911 said:
I know you don't drive a Golf Spongebob.

I was responding to the points you and others raise though about only buying a rebuilt car. It wasn't a pop at you personally, more a pop at the way some buyers are entering into prospective ownership.

I honestly think some people need to just look at a different brand or something.
I know what you're saying about rebuild cost vs car value, but it was exactly the same ten years ago for 3.2 Carreras and 964s. The only reason that is all forgotten is because those cars have luckily, rocketed in price.

I myself often call the M96 engine crap, but it's a risk/foible that I'm ok living with as the cars still offer a great driving and ownership experience when they're working.
Others may not be happy with the risks. That's fine but they need to buy a different car rather than expect every seller to have rebuilt their car to provide peace of mind for the next owner.

Would I be happy with a huge rebuild bill on my car? Of course not but like I say all engines wear out and need rebuilding. I don't know how long people expect a 20 year old, 100bhp per litre engine to last. 150k? 200k? Some will, some won't.

Anyway, apologies for my rant appearing to be aimed at you. It wasn't, I just quoted your post as you were the most recent poster to mention it.

I'm not usually ranty, but like I say it's starting to get ridiculous now, the hysteria around these cars.

I did used to have a golf :grin:

Dammit · 9 Aug 2018

I think this boils down to "don't by a 911 if you are not prepared for it to throw a big bill, if it then does not do so - great".

I suspect that applies to ALL 911's, not just the 996.

Stotty · 9 Aug 2018

Plenty more things to worry about than engines going pop.... mine's original, on 170k, and still going strong.

This year, I've spent c.£4k so far... new heater matrix, RMS, IMS inspection (seal long gone, but no signs of wear), plus some replacement brake pipes and power steering pipes was the 1st bill. Then a proper big service, including new discs and pads all round and handbrake rebuilt.

Last year I had a full exhaust system and a water pump... c.£3k.

Year before I had majority of the suspension components replaced (excl. spring/shocks, but inc. top mounts)... nearly £2k.

The 'little' things soon add up!

I'd be more interested if the car I was buying had all the little things done than an engine rebuild (assuming FSH, engine running well and clean borescope.

GMG · 10 Aug 2018

...arguably throwing that much money at a 170k miles car makes no sense at all? The engine might appear to be running strongly but will be very,very worn...as will everything else by default...

However, we all pays our money...

Equally one might easily conclude that those contributing to the discussion claiming hysteria are simply and conveniently naive?

As I see it we all love these wonderful cars but they have fundamental engineering issues with the engine that could bankrupt purchasers rendering their cars as scrap so simply stating otherwise is quite possibly more unhelpful than just peddling the "most of them will be fine" rhetoric..

Marky911 · 10 Aug 2018

GMG, your engine let go so you've experienced the sour side of ownership, but you need to move on, forget it and enjoy the car. If you can't, then sell up and buy something else. There's no point owning a car that you sit and complain about on the internet at every given opportunity. I don't get it.

We all know the engines are pretty crap but I would say anyone who buys one when an engine failure would "bankrupt" them is an idiot anyway. If mine goes bang and I don't have the readies to fix it, I'll break it for parts, sell it as a project, or throw a sheet over it and forget about it for a year or two.

There really is more to worry about in life than cars, engines, and repair bills. Trying to future-proof against every single potential failure is daft. So is expecting every owner to have to rebuild their engine if they ever expect to sell the car. It's not going to happen, but if it did then the cars would cost way more, as suddenly they'd be a risk free 911. There's no such thing though.

The cars have risks, don't they all. Buy it, drive it and if it breaks, fix it. To me entering into ownership a nervous wreck about a breakdown just screams "It isn't the right car for that buyer".
I thought most people would find it that simple...

Oh and one mans "conveniently niave" is another mans "Getting real". :thumb:

sackerley · 10 Aug 2018

Marky911 - very well put, I couldn't agree more :thumbs:

Gunscrossed · 10 Aug 2018

Marky911 said:
GMG, your engine let go so you've experienced the sour side of ownership, but you need to move on, forget it and enjoy the car. If you can't, then sell up and buy something else. There's no point owning a car that you sit and complain about on the internet at every given opportunity. I don't get it.

We all know the engines are pretty crap but I would say anyone who buys one when an engine failure would "bankrupt" them is an idiot anyway. If mine goes bang and I don't have the readies to fix it, I'll break it for parts, sell it as a project, or throw a sheet over it and forget about it for a year or two.

There really is more to worry about in life than cars, engines, and repair bills. Trying to future-proof against every single potential failure is daft. So is expecting every owner to have to rebuild their engine if they ever expect to sell the car. It's not going to happen, but if it did then the cars would cost way more, as suddenly they'd be a risk free 911. There's no such thing though.

The cars have risks, don't they all. Buy it, drive it and if it breaks, fix it. To me entering into ownership a nervous wreck about a breakdown just screams "It isn't the right car for that buyer".
I thought most people would find it that simple...

Oh and one mans "conveniently niave" is another mans "Getting real". :thumb:

Some good advice but totally depends on where you feel comfortable in respect to the purchase price?

Elmstone Classics - Carrera 2 Manual

Gunscrossed

Spa-Francorchamps

spongebob squarepants

Yas Marina

spongebob squarepants

Yas Marina

Marky911

Portimao

Marky911

Portimao

cvega

Nurburgring

spongebob squarepants

Yas Marina

Marky911

Portimao

spongebob squarepants

Yas Marina

Dammit

Paul Ricard

Stotty

Monza

GMG

Suzuka

Marky911

Portimao

sackerley

Monza

Gunscrossed

Spa-Francorchamps

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