These cars are 15+ years old, even a £20k one is not going to be 100% perfect.
If you want a perfect sports car for £20k take your purse to the nearest Mazda dealer and spec up an MX5 a bit.
A PPI is setup to find things wrong, you are paying them to find faults, if they don't find any they aren't doing their job. By all means use them to chip the price but don't expect a perfect car.
I would politely suggest the OP takes his money to 911 Virgin or one of the other super reputable cast iron dealers around. A close eye will still find imperfections, but it will likely be as good as it gets and the backup is excellent.
Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Posts: 383 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:38 am Post subject:
wasz wrote:
Lol this thread make me chuckle.
These cars are 15+ years old, even a £20k one is not going to be 100% perfect.
If you want a perfect sports car for £20k take your purse to the nearest Mazda dealer and spec up an MX5 a bit.
A PPI is setup to find things wrong, you are paying them to find faults, if they don't find any they aren't doing their job. By all means use them to chip the price but don't expect a perfect car.
+11111111111
These are 17 yo performance cars; they all require ‘rolling restoration’ one way or another, hence the wildly accepted ‘£2k pa’ minimum expenditure.
Buy one with the right spec, colour, straight panels, decent history and off you go. All the oily bits, even mild rust can be fixed if and when.
If one starts reading forum scary stories too much one may never buy a car!
(Not aiming at OP of course, just my 2 cents) _________________ 2005 996 GT3 mk2
1999 Integra DC2
BChivs Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 02 Aug 2017 Posts: 352
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:26 am Post subject:
Y2K wrote:
wasz wrote:
Lol this thread make me chuckle.
These cars are 15+ years old, even a £20k one is not going to be 100% perfect.
If you want a perfect sports car for £20k take your purse to the nearest Mazda dealer and spec up an MX5 a bit.
A PPI is setup to find things wrong, you are paying them to find faults, if they don't find any they aren't doing their job. By all means use them to chip the price but don't expect a perfect car.
+11111111111
These are 17 yo performance cars; they all require ‘rolling restoration’ one way or another, hence the wildly accepted ‘£2k pa’ minimum expenditure.
Buy one with the right spec, colour, straight panels, decent history and off you go. All the oily bits, even mild rust can be fixed if and when.
If one starts reading forum scary stories too much one may never buy a car!
(Not aiming at OP of course, just my 2 cents)
To a certain extent I agree, but budget dictates condition. When I was searching for a C4S I didn’t set a budget but just wanted the best I could find. I traveled the south of the country and discounted many cars that were all knackered described as mint.
There is a broad price range from £18k up to £35k....the way I see it spend £20k on one expect to spend a fair few grand on it, but if you pay upwards of £30k you should be buying a sorted car.
This is theoretically speaking and this is not how things happen in the real market but it should....too many with crap cars trying to flaunt the C4S tax. _________________ Ex 996C4S, manual, Polar Silver - Gone to the dogs!
Y2K Nürburgring
Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Posts: 383 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:23 am Post subject:
^^^^ agree with that as well. _________________ 2005 996 GT3 mk2
1999 Integra DC2
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 14937 Location: Kent
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:33 am Post subject:
wasz wrote:
These cars are 15+ years old, even a £20k one is not going to be 100% perfect.
If you want a perfect sports car for £20k take your purse to the nearest Mazda dealer and spec up an MX5 a bit.
A PPI is setup to find things wrong, you are paying them to find faults, if they don't find any they aren't doing their job. By all means use them to chip the price but don't expect a perfect car.
I would politely suggest the OP takes his money to 911 Virgin or one of the other super reputable cast iron dealers around. A close eye will still find imperfections, but it will likely be as good as it gets and the backup is excellent.
Spot on _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
asterix_the_gaul Suzuka
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1193 Location: Cheshire
Another tidy looking c4s popped up on eBay today, 97k miles, fresh mot, engine rebuild 6k miles ago, seal grey manual at 22.5k ONO. Get on the phone! Nothing to do with me by the way! _________________ 1992 944 S2 Cabriolet, Cobalt Blue/Classic grey -gone!
1995 993 C2 Cabriolet, Midnight Blue/Marble grey -gone!
1999 996 C2 Coupe, Ocean Blue/Graphite grey
2002 E46 M3 Cabriolet, Laguna seca blue/LSB
cheshire911 Estoril
Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Posts: 3766
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:44 pm Post subject:
Lots of "nice" examples on internet. But not take adequate precautions to satisfy yourself that they are as good as claimed. _________________ 996 2002 X50 Turbo Manual
"Once bitten; forever smitten"
Phil 997 Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 14956 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
I also think theres mileage in the suggestion to buy one for 8/10k is and spend 10/12k getting it how you want it, either engine or suspension or paint or a bit of all those things . Also factor in that you will probably spend 2k pa maintaining it. _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
asterix_the_gaul Suzuka
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1193 Location: Cheshire
I also think theres mileage in the suggestion to buy one for 8/10k is and spend 10/12k getting it how you want it, either engine or suspension or paint or a bit of all those things . Also factor in that you will probably spend 2k pa maintaining it.
Joined: 09 Jan 2018 Posts: 95 Location: Home Counties
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject:
I'll recount my buying experience, just to reinforce what many people have said on here already.
I've spent about the last 25 years tracking the prices of 911 ! I've seen 1960s being sold for about £8k, 930 a little more, 964 were bargain basement and 993 were mid teens. Turned down a 996 GT3 a track machine that was being sold for £27K with all the parts to return it back to a stonking road going machine.
Anyway, it's not about what if? I bought my car back at the end of February. I'd seen a few cars already, a few owned by forum members. Eventually I found a car that ticked most of the boxes, the only thing was, the colour wasn't my first choice (seal grey, I wanted lapis blue), but it was in reasonable condition. Had recent money spent on it, like a free flow manifold, 200 cell cat, sports exhaust, new MPS2 tyres all round, genuine turbo hollows, manual, Bilstein PSS 10, new rads and condensor and mileage was fairly low at 70k miles for a 2002.
I knew it was due a service and an alignment. I spent £3k in the first week on a new clutch accumulator, window regulator, heatshields, fuel cap, brake fluid change, some ducting and undertrays were missing, CV boots, ARB drop links, coolant leak (rads were plumbed in upside down apparently).
After that I spent another £3k on an uprated clutch (RMS was leaking and causing the previous clutch to slip), intercooler and brakes. Car had a poor tune on it, which I've had rectified.
So I paid under market rate when I bought it and ended up with a car that is (almost) tip-top. Monetarily, it would've cost me not much more to go for a fully sorted example with a well regarded independent dealer tbh, though some of my spend were not strictly necessary, like the brakes and I could've saved a few hundred by replacing with the standard clutch. _________________ 2002 996tt Aero in seal grey 6MT
Last edited by uk996 on Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:27 am; edited 2 times in total
Gunscrossed Silverstone
Joined: 01 Aug 2018 Posts: 116
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:12 pm Post subject:
Never been a fan of PPI to be honest, for the reasons already mentioned.
INWB Monza
Joined: 02 May 2016 Posts: 174 Location: Leicestershire
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject:
It took me just over a year to find my C4s. The ones for sale looked good (spec, FSH etc) but they were pretty dire when seen. A FSH is near meaningless unless they have a pile of receipts for stuff that should be changed (clutch, coffin arms, rads, brakes etc etc)
I paid over the odds (23,500) for a ex 911 Virgin car that was in the best shape I could find after a year. That was three years ago.
Prices have risen and the stock out there is that bit older. I don't fancy your chances of finding one that won't scare you with the work that needs doing to it. The manifolds on most will need doing as it seems to be done as a last resort. If the bolts snap (as they tend to) then you're looking at spending a wedge in labour costs for a part that costs less than a £750.
I have spent just over £10K in the last 3 years. This week I'm spending another £1500 (taking this year to near enough £5K). My car hasn't even covered 65,000 miles btw.
At recent events I have been looking at C4S closely. I can count on one hand how many are as good, if not slightly better than mine. None of them are for sale and it would take something starting with a 3 to tempt me out of mine now as it wants for nothing.
Prices have been a bit strange recently and some cars are sticking that appear to be okay but I know aren't that great. Some are "cheap" and are pretty good but still don't sell.
If I had £20K I would be going for the best C2 I could find and holding back a bit of a fighting fund.
Whatever the decision wish you all the very best - get a good one and you will soon forget the price you paid. _________________ 2003 Manual 996 C4S Midnight Blue
MisterCorn Long Beach
Joined: 08 Jan 2011 Posts: 6595 Location: Nottingham, England
The big problem with buying cars is that price is dictated by model, colour, spec, and mileage. Condition doesn't generally come into it. When buying a 15-20 year old car I would just keep a good budget to get it all sorted. Assuming the engine and gearbox are good then £5k can fix most other things if you can hold a spanner. If every car you look at has issues then then it probably just how the vast majority of them are. Buy from an enthusiast of you can, otherwise just expect to change suspension, radiators, condenser, exhaust. Usual 996 bits.
MC
Steff Trainee
Joined: 16 Jan 2015 Posts: 91
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:32 am Post subject:
There's a couple of threads along these lines at the moment.
My experience is similar to many on here. I bought pretty cheaply at the start of 2015, getting an early 3.4, 65k miles, pretty good history, all original with the MO30, LSD etc for £9,800. I had a PPI and new it would need a few grand to bring it up to scratch.
I haven't actually added up everything I've spent but it will be comfortably more than I paid for it.
Aside from the fact that I'm skint, I don't have a huge problem with that. it's a 20yr old car that cost close to £60k new.
I have read numerous times that just because £60k car has devalued to £10k, for example, it is still a £60k car and the running costs will be in line with that even if they don't need major work doing. As many have said these cars are old now and need a lot more than just routine maintenance.
I think the problem comes when people buy a £10-£15k car expecting it to cost fiesta money to run.
I'm quite comfortable with the risk, I am driving a car way above my pay scale and even if it went bang tomorrow and I had to sell for parts, I would have owned a 911, which for me is a tick in a box I never thought I'd have.
In reality it is not my only car so if the worst happened, I would put it away in the garage until a time came when I could fix it.
As people have said, everyone has a different attitude to risk but I think you have to remember you cant buy a £10-15k Porsche and expect it to cost nothing run. Someone will be along in a minute to say they are doing just that, but I expect that's the minority.
Anyway, buy them, drive them and enjoy them. If the risk is too great to sleep at night then buy something cheaper!, nothing wrong with an MX5 by the way!
911MDN Monza
Joined: 01 Feb 2011 Posts: 231 Location: Oxford
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:27 pm Post subject:
If you are still looking, I’m considering selling mine.
Send a PM if interested. _________________ 911 C4 GT3 Aero kit, Hartech - Black
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA - Black
KTM 990s Adventure - Dakar Spec
deMort Zolder
Joined: 21 Mar 2015 Posts: 5937 Location: Brighton
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:59 pm Post subject:
Buying a 996 at 20 - 22k is pretty much top end money .. after doing one of the 3 ppi,s listed for the OP then to tell him it will cost another 6 - 10K to put right makes it a bit over what is sensible money for one of these .
Buy cheap and fix up is one thing but the one i saw wasnt that . _________________ .
I dunno, I’d consider selling mine but it wouldn’t be £20-22k.
I’ve spent £5k on it in the last year, it’s pretty sorted and I’d be wanting £27k, which would see me some way down but I could live with that. With a PPI being done on my car, which I’d expect and welcome, no doubt they’d be some work identified.
If I was buying another one the only thing on a PPI that would put me off would be engine/gearbox issues, everything else is just maintenance. Buyers need to be realistic in the same way the sellers do with the pricing. _________________ 2004 996 C4S Manual
Slate Grey
Std Options: PCM2, Heated memory seats, Litronics, Parking sensors, body colour centre console
Added: Rennsport semi-solid engine mounts, 997 shifter, Full TopGear s/s exhaust system
Jackzi Trainee
Joined: 30 Aug 2015 Posts: 61 Location: Sussex
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject:
It's all about making you happy in the end.
As Ferry Porsche once said, 'a car that simply gets you from A to B doesn't go far enough'. (I used that quote for an ad when I worked for Porsche).
It's not simply a mode of transport, or indeed an investment, it's an emotional thing.
That said, the buyer should be happy that they paid their money for a decent example (or one that could be made decent) that they can enjoy and the seller should be happy that they've received fair compensation for it.
Bearing that in mind though, I don't see the logic of having to pay an owner back for the maintenance work they've paid for just to keep a car running.
I agree that engine and gearbox issues are the big ones and (most) other issues are maintenance. But the issues with the cars I've seen and had inspected up until now should have been factored into the asking prices.
'The market' is the guy in front of you, opening his wallet.
And so far, I didn't feel happy to do so. _________________ E39 530i
996 targa
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