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Carbon cleaning

mun802

Well-known member
Joined
5 Apr 2008
Messages
143
Has anyone tried or experience of Carbon Cleaning their P&J?
 
Do 996 port injected engines get much build up that isn't taken care of by modern fuels and regular oil changes? I know its different with some DFI engines in Audis etc.

A proper carbon clean costs a fortune, I think I'd save the money and put it toward a rebuild.
 
The Engine Carbon Clean system works by using tap water to create hydrogen and oxygen which pass through the air intake of an engine and out through the exhaust system as a gas, helping to remove the excess carbon that leads to poor running issues.

You can just hook a hose up to a bottle of water, pull a vacuum line and have the engine suck some in. It won't hydro lock unless you block the air intake too.

I did this once on a MK2 Golf GTI, I let it suck up about 3 litres of water, the amount of black crap that came out the exhaust was amazing. It did feel a bit fresher after but that might have all been in my head.

I've never bothered on cars since, figuring there is a risk of blocking stuff up with loosened chunks of carbon. After all, all that crud will be passing through the catalytic converter, and past delicate lambda sensors. There was no cat or lambda on the Golf.
 
HydroFlow cleaning is IMO the best way TOPGEAR exhaust one uses no chemicals which were found to cause corrosion , its just water turned into hydrogen that burns hotter thaN fuel so burns off carbon deposits. I did my 80k 997 gen1 and found an increase in performance ,smoother engine feel and a good inc in MPG
I also did the same to my 997 gen2 with 50k noted a smaller increase still the same nicer running engine and a smaller inc in MPG . So clearly it worked better on a higher mileage car which would make sence given the higher carbon build up.
Topgear charge £150 for there job and both times I felt it was worth doing just to get the best from the car . It takes about an hour to do and if you ever in the mood for a run out to Dorset well worth considering . they do have a distributor network and offer full training so might be worth calling their Bridport HQ and asking who in your area uses their equipment.

https://www.topgear.co.uk/hydroflow

:thumb: :thumb:
 
So they use electrolysis to split the H2O into HH and O with a fancy looking machine.

Basically putting extra unmetered fuel (Hydrogen and Oxygen) into the combustion chamber, making a hotter burn.

This is then ignited in the combustion chamber and forms H2O again, steam cleaning the carbon.

With water injection, the water contacts the already hot engine internals, creating steam, hence steam cleaning the carbon, possibly more effectively as it wets out the carbon first. You can punch the throttle to add more fuel and create a hotter burn.

IMO these services are mostly snake oil, they will clean it out - but will they do it any better than just tap water sucked in or sprayed in the intake?

Have a google around.
 
Maybe deMort or Baz can let us know what sort of state the insides of M96/7 engines are after a few miles, and whether such a treatment has any merit.
 
I dont think on engines below 50k you will get the benifits , see my post further up the thread.
there will always be people who think any type of thing is snake oil , I see it all the time with things I do to my car , everyone is entitled to their opinion my earlier reply was based of actually doing it and not what I thought or assumed may or may not happen .I also only run shell Vmax fuel and thats another whole snake oil subject :floor: but we do what we want to our cars . I usually do things that are reccomended by those that have done it , I tend not to listen to the opinions of people who havent done it as they really havent a clue about a particular mod and whether it works or not they can only offer opinion based on well just their opinion really :grin: :grin:
dont get me wrong I have a garage full of bits I tried that didnt do what they were supposed to do so its not all rose tinted for me :thumb: :thumb:
 
Phil 997 said:
I dont think on engines below 50k you will get the benifits , see my post further up the thread.
there will always be people who think any type of thing is snake oil , I see it all the time with things I do to my car , everyone is entitled to their opinion my earlier reply was based of actually doing it and not what I thought or assumed may or may not happen .I also only run shell Vmax fuel and thats another whole snake oil subject :floor: but we do what we want to our cars . I usually do things that are reccomended by those that have done it , I tend not to listen to the opinions of people who havent done it as they really havent a clue about a particular mod and whether it works or not they can only offer opinion based on well just their opinion really :grin: :grin:
dont get me wrong I have a garage full of bits I tried that didnt do what they were supposed to do so its not all rose tinted for me :thumb: :thumb:


I'm not disputing that it works. It does clean the insides of your engine.

I'm just not convinced it will do any better than water in the intake.

Just be aware that either way all the carbon crap will be coating the inside of the cat and sensors on its way out.
 
pzero said:
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=81709&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

One of a few threads already posted on the same topic.

Had a read of that thread, funny how theres one guy thats actually tried it and was happy , one guy tried it on two cars saw results on one but not the other and one guy that says 3 mpg gains and smoother running . the rest of the thread is made up of the same old bunch of negative comments from people that havent done it but are still willing to offer an opinion about it being snake oil. and that was 6 yrs ago so nothing changes :floor: :floor:

But heres the post from the member that actually tried it and was happy I have reposted as its worth a read, the rest of the thread is just the same old boll0c5 from guys who havent tried it. some actually saying just simply "snake oil" and nothing else to support that stupid statement. why bother posting lol.



Date 2013
Since watching Ed China on Wheeler Stealers magically nurse the engine of an XK8 back to below the emissions limits I have wondered if it would have any effect on my 123k mls aircooled pride and joy. A bit of internet research had yielded conflicting opinions with some calling it a snake oil whilst other think it is a genuine breakthrough, but no one seemed to have actually tried it. I was finally prompted to give it a go when the readings on the MOT last month were noted to be quite high. I have a few days off work visiting family down in Hampshire so after supplying them with a post code the Terraclean website advised me of the nearest available garage with a unit, Collisons Motoring Services in Cowplain, and the cost is fixed at £99 all in.

In order to quantify if there was any improvement I asked Collisons if they would be able to provide before and after readings from the gas analyser. These guys were as intrigued as I was to see how it would work as they have only had the unit for a few weeks and only used it on diesels so far. To see if there was any discernible feeling of change from the drivers seat both immediately before and after the process I drove a favourite set route of mine through the Hampshire countryside containing lots of winding bends and requiring acceleration through 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears, with a return stretch on the motorway. Short of a rolling road this seemed to be the best evaluation I could perform.

The machine is connected to the fuel line just behind the pump, the supplied fitments were not a match for the old K-tronic lines so the technician had to fabricate an adaptor. The fuse for the fuel pump is removed and the return line is clamped off. Two canisters are then loaded; the first to run is labelled as "Fuel Injector Cleaner" and smells slightly sweet like gas. After ~15mins the second canister is run, labelled as "Fuel & Post Combustion Cleaner". During this time the accelerator pedal is set to run the engine at 3K rpm, but it was noticeable that as the procedure progressed the engine revs kept slowly rising.

Once all was completed and another gas analysis performed I was able to compare the results before/after:

%vol CO Corrected: 0.83 / 0.57 (lowest is best)
%vol CO2 : 14.4 / 15.0 (ideal is 15)
%vol O2 : 0.76 / 0.68 (lowest is best)
ppm vol HC : 0052 / 0034 (lowest is best)
Lambda : 1.009 / 1.013 (ideal is 1)

I am certainly no expert on what the limits for these engines should be, or even what lambda actually is, but it is clear that there is a genuine reduction across the range. On the test route afterwards I paid a lot of attention to how the engine felt and was performing. Even allowing for the placebo effect creeping in there was a noticeable improvement in the lower rev range, with a cleaner drive out of bends and subsequent acceleration up through the gears. Pulling away from a standing start also required a little less clutch slippage than normal.

So in conclusion; it is certainly not going add a major boost to your engine's performance but, in my experience, it will help it to run more smoothly and cleanly. Is it worth £99? That depends on whether you want your engine to be as close to 100% as possible and to last as long as possible, with all the self acknowledged OCD'ers on here that could be quite a few people indeed. And after all it is but chump change compared to, say, a carbon handbrake lever...

I would be interested to hear from anyone else who has tried it.

James.
 
I don't think anyone in this thread has said it doesn't do anything.

I just said I don't think it does anything different to a bit of water.

I believe it does work (you can see the black stuff coming out the tail pipes on videos), but I would cast doubt on the additional benefits of splitting the hydrogen and oxygen first with the electrolysis machine.

Just my opinion, I've never hooked a car up to such a machine.

------

That post you quoted is talking about injector cleaning on the car by tapping in to fuel lines (terraclean), which is something different to the hydroflow thing you posted earlier.

I'm talking about hydroflow and similar.
 
wasz said:
I don't think anyone in this thread has said it doesn't do anything.

I just said I don't think it does anything different to a bit of water.

I believe it does work (you can see the black stuff coming out the tail pipes on videos), but I would cast doubt on the additional benefits of splitting the hydrogen and oxygen first with the electrolysis machine.

Just my opinion, I've never hooked a car up to such a machine.

------

That post you quoted is talking about injector cleaning on the car by tapping in to fuel lines (terraclean), which is something different to the hydroflow thing you posted earlier.

I'm talking about hydroflow and similar.

wasz mate my posts are not aimed directly at you , you made it very clear at the outset that you werent sure and hadnt tried it but questioned what it did that water wouldnt, which I cant comment on as I havent dont that , but if it doesnt stop raining soon it may bloody well happen anyway :grin: :grin:
your right the terraclean is a different process but my point was more about the guy who had tried it and had a possitive experience versus all the negative snake oil comments from guys who haddnt tried it.

I dont take things personally and am very used to guys having different opinions about mods I try but it can be frustrating when they havent tried them themselves but happily dismiss them offering no supporting reason for dismissing it. , more than happy to hear from someone who has tried something and didnt rate it when I do . As I know we all have differing expectaions of what results should be gained v the cost of something and also may be chaising different gains. :thumb: :thumb:
and the idea of the forum is to debate things and allow questions to be answered with guys indavidual findings about something whether good or bad
:thumb: :thumb:
 
To be honest if the gas analysis results were obtained under exactly the same conditions then I don't see how you can really argue with it - the question is whether its of value to you - for £100 then its got to be worth a go. His 'driving' experience in my opinion should be completely ignored as there is absolutely nothing scientific there.

The other question is whether the conditions were indeed exactly the same i.e. engine temperature when he ran both gas tests. Its always going to be better if its warmer.
 

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