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Let's talk about tracking - The Hunter Hawkeye

OK spoke to CG its 5 or 6 hours so only 2 cars really , So going to see if one of the guys down here wants to tag along then get it booked in :thumb:
 
Alex
Sorry mate didn't mean to hijack the thread. There were only a couple of questions I can answer directly for you, and I think you raise some valid points about accuracy. All I know is the experience that I the end user gets out of like for like equipment between OPC vs CG was night and day. I guess much in the same way a carpenter and cabinet maker can deliver 2 different results. You wouldn't want a cabinet maker to build your new roof trusses and probably wouldn't a carpenter ant to hand craft you a kitchen. Same tools, different methodologies.
 
Sorry Alex :coat: :coat: didnt intend to :hijack: on a positive note your thread has prompted me to spend £500 in fuel and a CG geo and bacon butties :grin: :thumb:
 
Any tool is only as good as the person weilding it.

I take my car to a local place that is involved in setting up race cars and track cars. Understanding the effect each measurement has on the handling dynamics is a start.

At least the don't look at you blankly when you talk about castor.

They just use laser targets, not the Hawkeye.

As far as I can tell, the Hawkeye is designed to increase speed, and so the person using it doesn't need to understand the science to get a acceptable result.
 
You're too late.......I've spat my dummy out now :sad:

:grin:

Might be worth asking Chris at CG what he thinks about the accuracy and repeatability of the Hawkeye when achieving his settings.
 
alex yates said:
You're too late.......I've spat my dummy out now :sad:

:grin:

Might be worth asking Chris at CG what he thinks about the accuracy and repeatability of the Hawkeye when achieving his settings.

:floor: :floor:

I will ask them for their thoughts when there on the hawkeye and let you know :thumb:
 
Phil 997 said:
OK spoke to CG its 5 or 6 hours so only 2 cars really , So going to see if one of the guys down here wants to tag along then get it booked in :thumb:
You won't be disappointed
 
alex yates said:
You're too late.......I've spat my dummy out now :sad:

:grin:

Might be worth asking Chris at CG what he thinks about the accuracy and repeatability of the Hawkeye when achieving his settings.
See what happens when you play with micrometers all day. You get cranky. Now go eat a snikers :D
 
Perhaps the different results are as a consequence of poor or non-existent calibration?

Certainly seems odd to get different readings in one session.
Did they roll the car back & forth between tweaking each corner?
 
They did between the difference in readings when I asked them for the recheck. Might bob in again this weekend and check the results.
 
Alex, if you're really interested in measurement systems analysis you should read AS13003.

It will tell you how to perform a study to assess the reliability and repeatability of the measurement system (which includes the operator), and you must also find the bias (the delta to an independent measurement system).

The simplest study would need 3 operators, 3 vehicles, each operator taking measurements on each vehicle 3 times on the Kwik Fit Hunter. Then you need each operator to measure each vehicle on the independent system.

I assume you've fallen asleep reading this by now so I'll shut up.

You were right about the rule of thumb of measurement resolution to tolerance being 10:1.

PS: I'm not really a geek, I just work in Aerospace and product verification of engine components.
 
I'm 6 sigma trained mate. I know MSA's inside out :wink:
 
Phil, I can most certainly recommend a visit to CG, they are local to me and both my Porsches have been in there for Geo and suspension inspection :thumb:

Chris and Pete are the business, you will not be disappointed :grin:

Let me know if you do pop up here, I`ll nip over with bacon butties :thumb:

Just to stay on topic, CG will test your shock absorbers on their vibration equipment to make sure that they are within spec and also weight the frunk of the car to give a reading with a full tank of fuel, as Porsche specifies for correct geo alignment...................which probably nobody else does :?:

They will also test your top mounts to see if they are delaminating before they put the car on the Hunter test ramp :grin:

They also check the ride height if you are on Porsche standard/m030 dampers and springs to look for any deviation from factory :grin:

As I have said before, the Hunter system is a tool, how that tool is used is down to the operator :judge:
 
So it's by no means fool proof then? Sounds to me more like Hunter haven't done the relevant training to guarantee any use of it as a measuring system is standardized to ensure its reliability & repeatability. You can't blame the user if they've not been trained adequately.
 
You also need to consider what tolerance band is on the hunter at your Kwik Fit. Ie what range have they set it turn green?
 

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