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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 446
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: DIY Engine removal - some questions......... and answers. Reply with quote

I appreciate there are some variables, but.......From the extensive experience of some of the accomplished mechanics here.

1.) How high off the ground do you need to lift a 996 coupe, to be able to pull the engine and transmission out from underneath?

2.) Also, thinking of using a wheeled hydraulic motorcycle lift, (with a collapsed height of 110mm and 400mm fully extended.) Is this feasible do you reckon?




The height of the engine complete with ancillaries such as the plenum I've measured as 650mm. At the moment, it appears I may have to drop the engine, then remove the inlet plenum and runners before moving the engine back out of the car.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers James
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6744
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use something like this at work ..

http://pallettruckdepot.co.uk/table-trucks/339-double-scissor-table-truck-tfd-70.html

This sort of thing is used with a ramp though , you could never jack a car high enough to use this sort of thing .

For height then look at the top of the engine , the body has to clear that so on the ground you can already see how high it needs to go .. add in the trolly base height and its higher .

Edit ..

on a ramp then i work underneath to undo the main fixings .. im on my knees but basically waist height .. you then raise the car or lower the trolly .. if you dont raise the car then you cant see if any cables are catching .
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deMort
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see what you are saying .. 650 + 110 so 760 mm .

Ive sat here with a tape measure seeing how high that it ..

Its pretty high for axle stands .

If you can find axle stands that high then a corner jack and raiseing the car a bit at a time might work .. but the car wont be that stable at that height on just stands .. my worry is it could fall .

I take it theres no type of sissor lift that could be used to get the car high enough ?
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
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Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Demort,

Yes, I have measured the top of the engine from the ground as 79cm, and the bottom of the bumper (Plastics removed) as 38cm. The bottom of the engine sits at 14cm off the floor, so drop the engine 3 cm, leaves the car needing to be raised 38cm at least. Which means the hydraulic lift range of movement appears to be 9 - 10cm short....

That's the theory, but just wondered about others practical experience.

Edit - to clarify the rear bumper removed, just the rear bar still attached
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 446
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, just read your second post.

Yes jacking posts are around 14cm off the ground. so axle stands need to be 52cm tall. A slight nose down lift will raise the rear bumper another slight amount.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
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1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a read, very helpful:

http://kellyanneporsche.com/enginedrop.htm



Seems Kelly Anne needed to remove the blocks of wood from the jack at that height:


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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8244
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I drop my engine down onto a low wooden trolley on little wheels I made, I use my engine crane and drop it through the engine opening, with the engine lid removed obviously with a trolley jack on the gearbox. I also sometimes remove the inlet manifolds in advance of pulling it out from under the car as it give more clearance but if you don't need to remove the inlets for the work you are doing just get the car high enough.

Unsure what exact height I have the car but I have the front wheels on metal ramps, for extra height and stability and the rear end on axle stands as high as I can jack the car but this will give you an idea of how high I get mine.

[/url]
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6744
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

52 cm seems a little low , that guide from Wasz says 72 cm .. on a flat surface .

You have a garage ? only picts i remember from you and you have been working outside ? .. you still havent invited me over young man Very Happy

Closest person to me as well !

Ok so a flat sruface and the car is pretty high on axle stands .. engine removal ok .. refitting and you would have to be carefull .

Its hard to explain but the engine will locate ok but the gearbox often hangs down .. if you have a seperate jack then you can raise it but you are almost lifting the car .

On a ramp thats not a problem but on axle stands its a bit iffy .

Yes it seems to be possible but as im always banging on about safety then you need to be carefull .
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deMort
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ infrasilver

Fair play to you sir .. i was sceptical that it could be done .. it you consider it safe then ill shut up Smile
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Jay Are
Trainee


Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 84
Location: Kesselchen


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject: Engine out... Reply with quote

Not an accomplshed mechanic but we've had a turbo engine and box in and out several times this summer for various reasons.

We used something similar to your bike stand but the car was on a ramp so we could lift the car out of the way whilst steadying the engine and box. I must say, I wouldn't tackle this on axle stands, there must be close to 0.5 tonne of engine and box on a turbo and you would have to be under there with it! Also, nothing is flat so it's all held up with bits of wood and a it's a little precarious. One slip and you've a hell of a headache / bill / both...

My £0.02 - I'd look into renting the use of a ramp from somewhere if at all possible.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Joined: 04 Oct 2010
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Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the front ramps for safety reasons, it adds stability to the car when moving things around, I have each ramp facing different directions so the stop point is against a tyre in opposite directions. I also put a piece of wood between the drivers seat and the brake pedal, this keeps the brakes on the front wheels to again stop any movement.

I have removed my engine probably 5 times now off axle stands and front ramps each time, never had an issue but do check everything is stable before commencing.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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Posts: 8244
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also using an engine crane makes life easier, you are more in control of the drop.

Demort wrote:
@ infrasilver

Fair play to you sir .. i was sceptical that it could be done .. it you consider it safe then ill shut up Smile


You are totally correct to question it and it's safe if your are methodical and double check everything, I have a good system in place for everything now. But I would hate for someone to get hurt by something slipping.
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 446
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thank for all the replies:

Wasz - Thanks for the link, I'll have a good read of that. She appears to have taken off the inlets as well as removing the blocks of wood. I have looked at that type of ATV / Motorcycle lift. Its cheaper, but only lifts 27cm and needs to be used with another jack as per the picture..

Demort - I like being called a young man Very Happy it hasn't happened in a while. I promise that when you come over it will be to drink tea and eat biscuits not work on my car!!!

Infrasilver/Jay are / Demort - Definitely hearing you regarding safety. Makes my toes curl to think what I have done in the past and gotten away with....... no more, hence seeking you guys advice.

Infrasilver - I have an engine crane, that might be the answer.... presuming you put a strop around the cylinder heads and lift on that? I have a metal framed crawler which I've used in the past to drop an engine and box out of the bottom of my old Fiat X1/9.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8244
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamesx19 wrote:
Infrasilver - I have an engine crane, that might be the answer.... presuming you put a strop around the cylinder heads and lift on that? I have a metal framed crawler which I've used in the past to drop an engine and box out of the bottom of my old Fiat X1/9.


I use the rear mount on the engine, it holds the engine onto the engine mounts so is easily strong enough and there is no chance of damaging anything on the engine when the chain or strap gets tight. Just put a rag for protection on your engine bay paintwork as it may scratch it when I gets taught.

There is a bit of weight bias to the left side of the engine so I use two chains, middle one to lift, left one to keep it stable. Left chain is attached to the middle chain.

I just searched for a picture and luckily I have one.


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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 446
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant, Cheers Infrasilver. Just the info I need. KellyAnne pages are good info as well

I may use the crane to hold the engine while re configuring the ATV lift mid drop, or just use the crane. Saves buying anything special, just a bit of woodwork, and some sturdier axle stands than I currently own.

Leaving the front wheels on and putting them on a ramp would allow movement there rather than sideloading the axle stands when jacking the car as well.

Also using a separate jack on the gearbox will allow for wiggle as per Demort's earlier comment.

Cheers
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Kingb4
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 367
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some really useful advice here.

I am also thinking of attempting an engine drop - as I have a few jobs that look pretty inaccesible. I also fancy learning how to do this on the 911 (used to be able to get the engine in and out of my mini when I was younger). I have treated myself to a low-rise scissor lift, which is brilliant.

Wasz - The link you posted was great. However am wondering if anyone has come across something thats step-by-step with pictures (like the old haynes manuals) - does anyone have a Bentley manual? If so, does this cover engine removal it step-by-step
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2931


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kingb4 wrote:
Wasz - The link you posted was great. However am wondering if anyone has come across something thats step-by-step with pictures (like the old haynes manuals) - does anyone have a Bentley manual? If so, does this cover engine removal it step-by-step


Its in the official Porsche workshop manual, handily available here:
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=83491&sid=b520a1ff05a1aab851c092daeeb378b6
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Kingb4
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 367
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Wasz - have just read the engine removal section. Its not a bad write-up (not up there with the old Haynes manual, but not bad)
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Jay.
Montreal


Joined: 20 Oct 2015
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Location: Brize Norton


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with this, some sound advice.

Get loads of pictures and hopefully you can help those of us willing to do this in the future Thumb
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Jamesx19
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
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Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok!

Can't promise mine would be in any way definitive compared with the one KellyAnne has already done though....

May be some pictures and a thread on height and how the car is safely supported, and tools used? Thumb
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