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911_AS
Imola


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 854
Location: London

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera S

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Post-Sale conumdrums with OPC Edinburgh Reply with quote

I bought my 991 from OPC Edinburgh a couple of months ago. I cannot fault the car, I'm very pleased with it. However, I am a little irritated with the dealership and the after sales experience.

Before buying the car, I specifically asked if the front end had been resprayed and all stone chips removed. I was told that had been done and the car was fully prepared to sell. (I live in London and the car was in Scotland, so I did not inspect the car prior to buying).

However, upon collection, I noticed the FE hadn't been re-sprayed at all, and there were quite a few stone chips on the bumper. Also, the interior wasn't quite as clean as I would have liked; a friend of mine actually used some foam wash and elbow grease to clean off the top layer which was a big improvement. Neither of these we deal breakers, but were a mild irritation.

Before signing the paperwork, the dealer agreed to get the Front End re-sprayed; BUT that would mean I would need to return the car to Silverstone (the closest OPC in their network). I agreed, and proceeded with the sale as the rest of the car was exactly as expected.

Although they've offered the FE re-spray, the logistics of leaving my car at Silverstone for a week is quite a hassle. Hence, I've obtained some re-spray quotes and the cost is circa £2000. I suggested this to OPC Edinburgh but they are only prepared to goto £500 towards the final cost (even if I use another OPC such as Hatfield or the London's to carry out the works).

Given the car was not quite as described [yet they have offered to put it right], do I have any rights as the consumer to insist on a better offer? I'm not entirely sure what my position is, but I would welcome your thoughts.

On a different matter, I noticed the Sat Nav was NOT the 7-digit post code version. I've tried to use it as it is (a 2012 version) and it's totally rubbish - it doesn't even recognise some roads in London which are over 100 years old! I asked the OPC to put this right but they have refused, saying that's what came with the car. They will only upgrade it to the current maps if I spend circa £330 on the latest upgrade; appalling when you think this car was £100k+ when new. So...same question - following the sale, do I have any rights to ask them to cover the Sat Nav upgrade and put it right?

I'm half tempted to leave the FE as it is, and get them to cover the sat-nav upgrade, as that is something I will use a lot more. But on sheer principle, I don't want to lose out on something I've been promised, especially since it should have been sorted before I bought the car in the first place!

In my position, what would you do?
Thanks for reading.
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless the front end has some particularly bad chips or marks, would leave things as they are. Alternatively, put the £500 towards an intensive detail which in itself may improve the look of the front end. If you go for either of these options, push for the satnav as a good willl gesture.

Legally speaking, if you want a full repaint you will have to use the dealership they authorise. On the satnav, yes it is poor, but you have no legal rights at all.
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Robertb
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can they not arrange a loan car for the week, or trailered collection and delivery to Silverstone?

And a sat nav upgrade at cost as a goodwill gesture for not delivering as promised.
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911UK
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9721
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me answer the Sat Nav issue 1st as that is simpler, IIRC the 7 digiti postcode was available from 2014 MY cars (end of 2013, but someone correct me on this) and was a known issue and real problem for initial 991 owners, unless it was advertised with the update ot this was promised as part of the sale

if not then this can be resolved by shopping around other OPC's who might have a better price or done at the same time as the next service.

As for the main issue, if they agreed to paint the front end have the car prepped then that is what they should have done, image below from their website

http://www.porscheedinburgh.co.uk/approved-pre-owned-cars

the consumer rights act is on your side

Refer to this link for your rights when buying a USED CAR

Quote:
Consumer Rights Act states that products must be:

- of satisfactory quality
- fit for purpose, and
- as described

The dealer must have the right to sell the vehicle and is liable for faults with the vehicle - that mean it was not of satisfactory quality - that were present at the time it was sold even though they may only become apparent later on.

you’re legally entitled to your money back or a repair if the car is faulty
‘Faulty’ means the car is not:

• ‘of satisfactory quality’ - it should do what you’d expect for its age, price and type
• ‘fit for purpose’ - eg if you asked for a car that would pull a caravan, it has to be able to do that
• ‘as described’ - it has to match the advert or the description the trader gave you


As described is the key term here as it was described to have had that FE respray and a proper Valet & inspection in light with their quality standards.

They need to make the arrangements to rectify these issues without inconveniencing you i,e, take the car away to get fixed, it's not for you to do this.

You need to write to the Centre Principal who is
Paul Farrell
paul.farrell@porscheedinburgh.co.uk
and refer him to the FE and valet quality issues agreed in the sale in line with the consumer rights act


Thread, moved from 991 forum to OPC reveiw forum
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James M-S
Montreal


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 619
Location: Derby

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would drop off at Silverstone.

Make it clear you expect equivalent loan car AND a goodwill gesture (eg additional PEC Silverstone day or satnav update) - neither will cost them much

If you can manage without, then settle for a lift to/from Milton Keynes train station and Sat Nav update as a goodwill gesture.

Good luck!
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mark pearce
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7 digit post code was standard on 2013 model year cars
I ve done the update to so many 997 and 2012 991’s, used to be about £150 as a special offer that became almost a permanent offer then Porsche realized it was a lost leader and put the price back up to £350 ish
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Jay Man
Monza


Joined: 01 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should absolutely stand your ground and get them to lend you a car whilst the paint is being done or collect.

Also, if it was sold with the 7 digit sat nav then they should honour it, you are protected by distance selling regulations. If not then maybe you could get it as a goodwill gesture. You should experience a first class service and if you dont get it then its your right to kick off!

If you paid a deposit for you car on credit card you are protected for up to £30k under section 75 - even if you only paid £500 - I used this when I bought a car unseen from a dealer in Glasgow and it turned out to be not as described. Speak to your credit card company and they can put an alert on their account. I can assure you this will get things done!

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases
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911_AS
Imola


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 854
Location: London

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera S

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your responses so far.

The OPC have offered me a courtesy car, but not a like-for-like. It will probably be a Macan or Cayenne or something equivalent. The courtesy car is not a huge deal for me, but it's the sheer hassle and inconvenience of it all. I'll have to drive to Silverstone, drop car off, then back to London - probably going to take at least 4 hours out of my day. I then have to repeat that the following weekend.

The experience of buying from an OPC - at least in my mind - should have been a lot better. I understand the car is a 2012 MY, but it should be as close to perfect as possible. My expectations haven't been met, and despite me spending a lot of time on the phone and email chasing the OPC, nothing concrete has formulated as a solution.

I've emailed again to ask if they are willing to re-think about the £500 value towards the re-spray to see if they will increase it - still waiting for a response, and I doubt I'll get one now until next week. (This is the 2nd time I've asked the question - painful).

I was hoping as a gesture of goodwill they would offer to upgrade the Sat Nav, but they are simply not willing to do so at the moment. The car did not have this as standard, so technically they are under no obligation to upgrade it. I'm so annoyed with myself for not checking this, as I would have insisted on it had I known. My previous car, a 2010, had the 7-digit post code function and I was not aware this wasn't standard until 2014(!).

I'll have a think over the weekend about what to do next. In the meantime, thank you once again for all your replies - very good info. Keep 'em coming as every bit of information and advice is useful.
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5041
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its part of the Sytner group so useing silverstone keeps the costs down as its in group , you also have Mid-Sussex which might be further away ?

I dont disagree at all .. the car should have had the respray done before you collected the car .. its not as if its local and you could collect it another day .. bad form on their part i think .

Reguards the sat nav though ..

For them to upgrade it they have to buy a code and a CD from Porsche .. it costs peanuts to make but Porsche charge rather a lot for it .. the OPC would get maybe 15% off the cost that you would buy it retail so its a fair chunk of money for them to shell out with no prior pre sale agreement .

I agree in the great scheme of things its not a lot .. but sales works on proffit .

I can only say from my experience but i expect no OPC would upgrade a sat nav as part of a 111 point check or prior to sale unless it was part of the deal .. its lost proffit at the end of the day im afraid and it wasnt done when i last worked at OPC .

Not fair and not something i agreed with though as some cars might have VERY old maps installed .
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Donnington
Donnington


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true on the Sat Nav as I found out on my Cayenne PC when my chum was buying a Panamera from OPC I told him to ask for the 7-digit code update as part of the deal before he bought it. They wouldn't as it's a direct cost to them from Porsche and takes several hours plugged into the diagnostic interface. They would however for £150.

He ended up with the 2012 maps rather than take my advice and pay Rolling Eyes Needless to say he now agrees with me it's shoite Thumb
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911UK
Porsche Community
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1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Post-Sale conumdrums with OPC Edinburgh Reply with quote

911_AS wrote:
Also, the interior wasn't quite as clean as I would have liked; a friend of mine actually used some foam wash and elbow grease to clean off the top layer which was a big improvement. Neither of these we deal breakers, but were a mild irritation.


On this issue, it's worth asking the OPC to confirm who audited the car as satisfactory before it was handed over, as although this might be seen as a minor point, this is still a major failing in the quality standards from an Approved Used Porsche
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911_AS
Imola


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 854
Location: London

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera S

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all. I've written to the Dealer Principal to make him aware of these issues.
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wizard993
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“The OPC have offered me a courtesy car, but not a like-for-like. It will probably be a Macan or Cayenne or something equivalent. The courtesy car is not a huge deal for me, but it's the sheer hassle and inconvenience of it all. I'll have to drive to Silverstone, drop car off, then back to London - probably going to take at least 4 hours out of my day. I then have to repeat that the following weekend”

I think your getting a bit silly over this now. Regardless of the circumstances you inspected and took the car knowing/agreeing it had to go to the OPC to get painted.....now your unhappy.

They are giving you a decent car(not a Vauxhall Adam) while your car gets painted and the job warranted via the OPC.

Include a visit somewhere nice en route to pick it up with its new paint and put it behind you.
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ragpicker
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

£2000 for a front end blow over!??? Surprised
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mzmini
Barcelona


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great value the mind boggles at the price for a full re-spray 10k +
Floor
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911_AS
Imola


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 854
Location: London

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera S

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wizard993 wrote:
I think your getting a bit silly over this now. Regardless of the circumstances you inspected and took the car knowing/agreeing it had to go to the OPC to get painted.....now your unhappy.

They are giving you a decent car(not a Vauxhall Adam) while your car gets painted and the job warranted via the OPC.

Include a visit somewhere nice en route to pick it up with its new paint and put it behind you.


The courtesy car isn't the issue - as I said. The issue is I'll have to spend two half days dropping the car off and collecting it, for something that should have been done prior to me buying it. It's their problem to solve, at the least inconvenience to me. I've been very patient and spent countless hours chasing them, the service could have been a lot better and they had numerous opportunities to put this right.

Thanks for the suggestion, but respectfully, a random visit on the way home to "somewhere nice" is not the best use of my time.
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Last edited by 911_AS on Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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911_AS
Imola


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 854
Location: London

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera S

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragpicker wrote:
£2000 for a front end blow over!??? Surprised


Tell me about it! I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the quote!!
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Robertb
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can they not do a collection and delivery?

At the end of the day, it was agreed it would be done before delivery, so its up to them to sort it at your convenience.

These maps are so last season, I cant believe manufacturers persist with them given that my ancient iPhone manages to have a perpetually up to date map.
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911_AS
Imola


Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 854
Location: London

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera S

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
Can they not do a collection and delivery?

At the end of the day, it was agreed it would be done before delivery, so its up to them to sort it at your convenience.

These maps are so last season, I cant believe manufacturers persist with them given that my ancient iPhone manages to have a perpetually up to date map.


I've asked that question, but await a reply from the DP (likely next week). I'm actually tired and fed up of chasing now.

Agreed re: phone maps.
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Last edited by 911_AS on Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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996ttalot
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911_AS wrote:
ragpicker wrote:
£2000 for a front end blow over!??? Surprised


Tell me about it! I nearly fell off my chair when I saw the quote!!
if by FE you mean bonnet, bumper and wings £2k is cheap - removing the bumper on 991 model for example takes more time than previous models.

I can tell you that FE respray by Porsche approved body shop is £3500 plus vat.

Ken
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