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996ttalot
Approved Trader


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1394
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: 9e new development car Reply with quote

Hi,

So we took delivery of our new development car from Porsche this morning. Guards Red 718S PDK.

We will run this in quickly and then develop in conjunction with our partner Kline Innovations some exhaust options that will transform the sound.

After this we will develop the tuning for the car.

Plan is
1. Exhaust upgrades
2. Tuning upgrades
3. Hybrid VTG

Option 3 should get us to over 450ps.

Anything we do will apply to the Boxster as well.

We will do a base power run in the new year and keep the thread updated with progress.

Ken
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911tom
Kyalami


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 1914
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might not be a flat 6... BUT Cayman chassis, mid engined, C.450hp.... This is what the GT4 should have been. Well actually GT4 should have had a 4.0L GT3 engine but porsche never would have allowed that! This however is going to be a very capable car indeed. Love it and absolutely subscribed!
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996ttalot
Approved Trader


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1394
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911tom wrote:
It might not be a flat 6... BUT Cayman chassis, mid engined, C.450hp.... This is what the GT4 should have been. Well actually GT4 should have had a 4.0L GT3 engine but porsche never would have allowed that! This however is going to be a very capable car indeed. Love it and absolutely subscribed!
It should be fun for sure - I have a number 4 option as well but will keep that quiet for a while Grin
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porkyb1
Trainee


Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any thoughts on heat management in the engine bay and 3rd gear issue for those that want manual?

SportAuto noted power drop-off on track which they attributed to heat with sensors trimming power.

There have been 718s losing 3rd, far fewer than GT4/GTS but most on track in US. GT gears may be the solution. PDK allegedly good for 500Nm.

Any idea on price target and warranty retention?

Very good to see UK tuner starting on the platform. worship
 
  
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Desert Dragon
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 419



PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do all the cars have different PDK hardware / clutch packs? 997 pdk used to be able to take far more than 500nm. Guys out there running 750-800nm + on their turbos.
 
  
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porkyb1
Trainee


Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desert Dragon wrote:
do all the cars have different PDK hardware / clutch packs? 997 pdk used to be able to take far more than 500nm. Guys out there running 750-800nm + on their turbos.


The 997 Turbo PDK was rated at 750Nm per ZF technical data, the equivalent 997/987 PDK was 420Nm. I was told by ZF guy that the non-turbo box would take up to 500Nm but not on a sustained basis.

I know of a 981 GT4 Clubsport with 4.2L engine running 495PS and 500Nm with no slip (yet) mind you he is putting a SADEV sequential in the car, for reasons of better track performance in his track day car. He has been running a tuned Powerkit 3.8L Boxster PDK with around 450PS and 470Nm for some time with no PDK issues. He changes PDK oils annually.
 
  
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FRP
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 1359
Location: Middlesex


PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken - I thought this was the new loan car!!

Seriously sounds like a 9e plan to widen their portfolio....awsome, 450bhp will be possibly a perfect balance vs. weight etc

Plan 4 - Ummmm 9e aero package/styling???

Keep the updates coming, watching with interest

HAPPY XMAS
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Desert Dragon
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 419



PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

porkyb1 wrote:
Desert Dragon wrote:
do all the cars have different PDK hardware / clutch packs? 997 pdk used to be able to take far more than 500nm. Guys out there running 750-800nm + on their turbos.


The 997 Turbo PDK was rated at 750Nm per ZF technical data, the equivalent 997/987 PDK was 420Nm. I was told by ZF guy that the non-turbo box would take up to 500Nm but not on a sustained basis.

I know of a 981 GT4 Clubsport with 4.2L engine running 495PS and 500Nm with no slip (yet) mind you he is putting a SADEV sequential in the car, for reasons of better track performance in his track day car. He has been running a tuned Powerkit 3.8L Boxster PDK with around 450PS and 470Nm for some time with no PDK issues. He changes PDK oils annually.


Cheers that makes sense. That certainly puts a potential limit on the tuning as these turbo engines with hybrid VTGS can produce silly amounts of power/torque when you let 9e and others near them. Its sounds like there may be Boxster and Caymans around with 500 PS soon with 9e option 4! Same with the new RS3. A flash away from 500bhp according to Litchfield which is amazing for a hot hatch. There will soon be RS3s disappearing from Fezzes and Porsches at the traffic lights grand prix!
 
  
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996ttalot
Approved Trader


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1394
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

So about time for an update now that we have almost completed all our testing on the 718s platform.

Tuning results

So when we first started the stock car was making just over 310whp so around about a 35hp transmission loss, which is pretty much what we have seen on the later PDK cars.

SInce the 718s ECU is very new and there is no layouts for it, it has taken some time to decipher the areas we need to make the changes. Using a tried and tested method of mapping on the Porsche dfi engines actually lead initially to not very good results, but eventually after about 5 or 6 different strategies we have found what this platform likes and doesn't like. Don't ask me what that is as that is our IP.

So the results.

1. Well we are hitting 442whp (from 310whp) with an average of over 400whp over the curve Grin in sport mode.

2. Normal mode is about 10% less than above.

3. Zero issues with PDK - suspect manual will need upgraded clutch.

4. We have just completed 1000 miles of hard testing without any issues.

Testing

As many will know we don't like dyno and prefer real world testing. As well as local testing we wanted to test some endurance as well and top speed runs for periods on time.

We took the car over to Spa this week. The video below highlights how strong the package is.

Please note
- stock car just with tuning
- stock brakes
- stock geo
- cup2 tyres

On track I would point out that the car needs better brakes than the steels. They were having to be nursed after two laps but that is an easy fix to do. Whilst the car has the PASM Sport suspension kit, I have to say the suspension on the car is far too soft for proper track work. Again easy fix if required.

We had zero heat issues. We have found a few things in the tuning that together with the charge cooler on the car from stock, means no drop off in power after multiple continuous laps.

We also took the opportunity to run the car up at high speeds multiple times with zero issues.

With the right brakes, better suspension and geo, suspect it would get down into 2;44-2;45 lap times at Spa. For comparison 991gt3rs is 2;40-2:41.

The video was kindly done by one of our customers in his tracked out 996gt3clubsport.

Video

http://youtu.be/XomiEI4TX0Q

Plan to release the tuning package in the next few weeks.

Awesome car.

Ken
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6531
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blimey that's quick!

Testament to how well the car is set up from the factory and seems to be able to handle the extra power easily.

Haters gonna hate the flat four, but seems like a great engine to me, and comes from a rich history of Porsche 4 cylinder sportscars.
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FRP
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 1359
Location: Middlesex


PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great Ken

Cant wait to tke it for a drive....

Cayman really is a great car and this package looks to improve it a lot

Regards
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Kryton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 305
Location: Coniston, Lake District


PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bookmarked worship
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991.2 GT3, full Club Sport pack----to be replaced by a Lizard Green GT3RS 1st quarter 2019

2Lt 718 Cayman (weekday drive)
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 13450
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks great Ken, car handled well at Spa by the look of the vid. Thumb
You say you may have to upgrade the clutch on a manual, is there a way of upgrading it without bringing NVH into the cabin Question
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996ttalot
Approved Trader


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1394
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
That looks great Ken, car handled well at Spa by the look of the vid. Thumb
You say you may have to upgrade the clutch on a manual, is there a way of upgrading it without bringing NVH into the cabin Question
I am sure that when we get the first manual in we will see - plan would be to see if stock clutch holds ( or for how long afterwards ) and then upgrade. It might not take much of an upgrade so hopefully no significant NVH.

On stock settings it was okay but there were certain sections of the track that you could not lean as hard as you would have wanted too - it needs better camber and springs ideally but let’s face it is a road car so to be expected.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 13450
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken ,thanks for the reply, I look forward to following the progress of the car and also when you get a manual in to try. Thumb Thumb
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The return of Marty Wild
Österreich


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 990



PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread, keep the updates coming!
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