997.2 engine failure: rebuild or replace

Desert Dragon · 13 Dec 2017

bludger said:
First of all let me say that this is not a troll!

I'm thinking of getting a 911 but I do find these reports of engine failures really somewhat disturbing. Porsche is not a "garden" manufacturer like Morgan or TVR; it is a substantial business which places its products as almost "the supercar you can use everyday". And yet, although I am no engineer, it has a major failure like the 997.1 engine which would require a major rebuild to correct.

The vast majority on this board are enthusiasts and these sort of issues in many ways are part of the interest in owning the marque. However, for someone like me who wants the car to enjoy and not particularly bother about its really a bit disturbing. If I were to get a 911 I would get a 997.2 because I don't want the issues of a 997.1 but I shouldn't have to make this choice; at the very least it restricts the choice of the punter and that can't be a good thing. With a marque like Ferrari you accept some "issues" as part of ownership but few would pretend that a Ferrari is an everyday drive; it is more in the nature of a racehorse which needs a lot of care to perform properly.

Covered hundreds of thousands of miles in gen 1, gen 2 both cooking models and mezgers. They've all been very reliable. The gen 1 on two cars we had from new one RMS done under warranty thats it. Ask me about how much the mezger in particular the turbo has been to keep in tip top condition. Eye watering by comparison for routine things like rads, brakes, coolant pipes, clutch etc. All ours have been thrashed to within an inch of their lives on track etc. I believe this helps

tom_nieto · 13 Dec 2017

bludger said:
First of all let me say that this is not a troll!

I'm thinking of getting a 911 but I do find these reports of engine failures really somewhat disturbing. Porsche is not a "garden" manufacturer like Morgan or TVR; it is a substantial business which places its products as almost "the supercar you can use everyday". And yet, although I am no engineer, it has a major failure like the 997.1 engine which would require a major rebuild to correct.

The vast majority on this board are enthusiasts and these sort of issues in many ways are part of the interest in owning the marque. However, for someone like me who wants the car to enjoy and not particularly bother about its really a bit disturbing. If I were to get a 911 I would get a 997.2 because I don't want the issues of a 997.1 but I shouldn't have to make this choice; at the very least it restricts the choice of the punter and that can't be a good thing. With a marque like Ferrari you accept some "issues" as part of ownership but few would pretend that a Ferrari is an everyday drive; it is more in the nature of a racehorse which needs a lot of care to perform properly.

The point I was trying to make is that even a humble 911 is a high performance sports car which requires exemplary maintenance to perform at its best. Every marque has horror stories for a particular model and with the 997 you've always got the option of a gen 2. If you're a pauper like me you have to take your chances on a gen 1, but then again you take your chances with any 10 year old or more car, especially a high performance machine. Buy with your eyes open.

T8 · 13 Dec 2017

bludger said:
.......... for someone like me who wants the car to enjoy and not particularly bother about its really a bit disturbing. If I were to get a 911 I would get a 997.2 because I don't want the issues of a 997.1 but I shouldn't have to make this choice; at the very least it restricts the choice of the punter and that can't be a good thing ........

I understand your reasoning bludger but, like any car, a 7-12 year old 911 is always going to be more of a risk than a newer version.

Purchasing either will invariably come down to budget and it's generally advisable to buy the newest you can afford - subject of course to annual mileage, spec, history and condition being similar.

You will pay a lot more for a 10 year old 911 than a 10 year old 'Mondelagunaignia' but it will still be a 10 year old car. Potential engine issues are only part of the risk assessment you have to make.

Many, like you, will take the decision to wait until they can afford not just a 911 but a fairly recent 911 to mitigate that risk as much as possible.

BriceV · 13 Dec 2017

End of the story: I am going for the new short engine. The cost will eventually only be £3k for me thanks to a 10% discount on the short engine by Porsche. Total cost is £14k, of which £11k is covered by RPM. I have to admit I am sentimental. I have not intention to sell the car anytime soon. So here it is, I'll have a brand new engine in a car I'll keep for a long while. Thanks all for the comments.

T8 · 13 Dec 2017

Sorry for the recent :hijack: brice.

If it was me, given the generally accepted reliability of the Gen2 engine, I'd pay the £4k and go for the new engine. It's the part of a car that most people worry about and if you've known all of it from new you'll have great peace of mind. I also think any future buyer would prefer a replacement engine to a rebuilt one.

EDIT: Obviously we were writing at the same time.

:thumbs: decision.

Enjoy driving it in 2018 and beyond.

Desert Dragon · 13 Dec 2017

Whats the situation on the engine nos by the way? Will they still be matching if you[re going for a short engine? :dont know:

bludger · 13 Dec 2017

T8 said:
bludger said:

.......... for someone like me who wants the car to enjoy and not particularly bother about its really a bit disturbing. If I were to get a 911 I would get a 997.2 because I don't want the issues of a 997.1 but I shouldn't have to make this choice; at the very least it restricts the choice of the punter and that can't be a good thing ........

Click to expand...

I understand your reasoning bludger but, like any car, a 7-12 year old 911 is always going to be more of a risk than a newer version.

Purchasing either will invariably come down to budget and it's generally advisable to buy the newest you can afford - subject of course to annual mileage, spec, history and condition being similar.

You will pay a lot more for a 10 year old 911 than a 10 year old 'Mondelagunaignia' but it will still be a 10 year old car. Potential engine issues are only part of the risk assessment you have to make.

Many, like you, will take the decision to wait until they can afford not just a 911 but a fairly recent 911 to mitigate that risk as much as possible.

Thanks for that and to the other posters.

Of course you are right. Perhaps as an acid test I guess if you said to me "What car would you buy now if money was no object?" I wouldn't say "BMW M4...I'd say "Porsche 991 ex demo!"

wasz · 13 Dec 2017

BriceV said:
End of the story: I am going for the new short engine. The cost will eventually only be £3k for me thanks to a 10% discount on the short engine by Porsche. Total cost is £14k, of which £11k is covered by RPM. I have to admit I am sentimental. I have not intention to sell the car anytime soon. So here it is, I'll have a brand new engine in a car I'll keep for a long while. Thanks all for the comments.

Good decision as you are keeping the car long term.

A 997.2 with a new engine could be a car for life really, no reason why not - one to treasure as it does everything.

MaxA · 13 Dec 2017

This developed into an interesting thread.

As a buyer, I wouldn't worry about a rebuilt or a replaced engine, provided it was rebuilt by a known specialist such as the firm here, but I might worry about the rest of the car. I once walked away from a car with a replacement engine, as the car as a whole just didn't quite ring true (it had rust in odd places), and I didn't trust it.

And as it turns out, my used 9972's engine has been fine, but it did require the whole front suspension to be rebuilt (due to a broken spring, damaged mounts and such). You never know, even with a full OPC inspection and warranty. :dont know: [/i]

boardingnath997 · 13 Dec 2017

Great to hear you have made a decision and I bet you can't wait to get it back now.

Just one question for someone who doesn't get their hands greasy often - What is a 'short' engine?

997 Coast · 13 Dec 2017

BriceV said:
Hi,
I am looking for opinions on rebuild vs replace. I bought a 997.2 C2s from RPM in September with 68k miles. It quickly appeared that the oil consumption was too high. I sent it for a service to RGA Porsche in Vauxhall where Bob showed me the oil filter had metallic particles in it which clearly indicated a serious problem. I returned the car to RPM for inspection. They spotted metallic particles as well in the oil and they decided to strip out the engine. They discovered spun bearings which made quite some damage inside the engine. Obviously I bought a 997 gen 2 in part for the added piece of mind of a more reliable engine. But bad things happen even to non-996/997.1 engines. RPM obviously offered to rebuild the engine and to cover the costs (£11k). They also gave a call to Porsche which are offering a brand new engine with 2 year guarantee for £15k. I am now left with the choice to either ask RPM to rebuild the engine for free, or to pay the difference from my personal wallet (£4k) and drive away with a brand new engine with a 2 year guarantee. I am not trying to point the finger at anyone here. RPM have been very pro-active in trying to help me analyse the situation. But I am interested in the opinion of more experienced Porsche lovers around here or more engine knowledgeable people than me about rebuild vs replace.
Let me know what you think.

997 Coast · 13 Dec 2017

Rather than fannying a new engine :?:

£4000 in the scale of things is a reasonable

Norfolk &amp; Idea · 13 Dec 2017

boardingnath997 said:
Great to hear you have made a decision and I bet you can't wait to get it back now.

Just one question for someone who doesn't get their hands greasy often - What is a 'short' engine?

Basically without the heads I think. So cases, crankshaft, conrods and pistons.

MaxA · 14 Dec 2017

Norfolk & Idea said:
boardingnath997 said:

Great to hear you have made a decision and I bet you can't wait to get it back now.

Just one question for someone who doesn't get their hands greasy often - What is a 'short' engine?

Click to expand...

Basically without the heads I think. So cases, crankshaft, conrods and pistons.

We regard a short engine as the bottom end or "lower half", i.e. the block and it's contents, between the head gasket and the oil pan. Block, crank, bearings, rods, pistons, as well as some of the externals (crank pulley) etc.

BriceV · 26 Jan 2018

A quick update following my engine failure on my 997.2 C2S late last year.

I finally decided to go for the new engine rather than an engine rebuild, as recommended by RPM. Fortunately Porsche had one in stock and the delivery from Germany was quick before Christmas. The installation by RPM was also relatively quick and I got the car back 2 weeks ago after almost 2 months without my preferred toy (my Cayenne S has lost all its appeal since I have bought the 997...).

So here I was 2 weeks ago, happy to be back behind its steering wheel on a Friday late afternoon. I drove it back from RPM to London. Unfortunately I got alert messages arriving close to my home. "Engine oil pressure too low". It goes without saying I was not a big fan of this, having just gone through a major engine failure.

I promptly sent a message to the RPM guys. Greig answered quickly and their advice was: do not drive the car. They came to pick it up on a trailer early Monday morning for inspection. I got a call from Ian on Tuesday. IT seems some of the gauges (including the one measuring oil pressure) had changed compared to the initial engine and the ECU needed an upgrade which they had not done initially. Their mistake. They did the ECU upgrade and kept the car for the rest of the week for a few test drives.

I finally got the car back one week ago on Friday. No alert of any type since then... but a big frustration ! Indeed the engine is new, which means I have to break it in. Ian from RPM advised not to rev above 3k for 1,000 miles, then oil change. Porsche officially says the engine is already broken in, but Ian prefers to be cautious. And given my engine failure experience, I prefer to be cautious too. But I am not a patient guy and there is no real pleasure in driving it below 3k. The car has now already done 430 miles on the new engine. I will probably head to the Cotswolds on Sunday for a ride with my wife and my son. It should add another 200-250 miles. It will be really frustrating to drive...

Anyway, now I am starting to think about the modifications I was considering before the engine failure. The exhaust is already done as the central muffler has already been replaced by an x-pipe. Now I am thinking TPC DSC as I find the car a bit bouncy in normal mode, but far too stiff in sport. Then it will be lowering springs (probably Techart) and wheel spacers. It will probably be enough for me... before I think of something else...

997.2 engine failure: rebuild or replace

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