Are Brits Losing Their Taste for Porsche and Mercedes?

pcat · 29 Oct 2017

bludger said:
I drive a BMW 330ci at the moment but it's long in the tooth.I'm toying with the idea of getting a 997 gen2 instead of my original choice which would be a BMW435i.

I'm inclined to wait a little because I think we are in for rough economic times and prices may soften. However, do I get the drift here that in this case I may have to wait a long time as values seem to be hardening and I want to gen2 with PDK and am not prepared to go back to a gen 11?
Thoughts?

People were saying 'wait' when i got mine, in the middle of the post financial crisis recession. Glad i didnt.

The market is completely different to non-M BMW, its more like old M cars - CSL, breadvan Z3 etc

Gen 2 prices could go down, but they are propped up by volumes, the relative cost of a gen 1, and the new prices of later models. They are just as likely to go up

pcat · 29 Oct 2017

Ps - manual cars are rarer, unless you really want pdk consider one if residuals are important

MNC911 · 29 Oct 2017

Poker2009 said:
To get into a decent spec 911 now costs in excess of £100,000 (basically over-priced) and takes it out of the reach of even more people.

This is what supports the prices of older cars, and why the 996 and 997 used prices are supported and will slowly go up.

Three years ago you could buy a decent spec 997 for, broadly speaking, 20k - now the same spec cars are three years older, but 25k or higher.

As more of these older cars become uneconomical to repair, prices of good examples will only go higher, especially "old skool" manual gearbox with NA engine!

:agree: :agree: :typing:

bludger · 29 Oct 2017

People were saying 'wait' when i got mine, in the middle of the post financial crisis recession. Glad i didnt.

The market is completely different to non-M BMW, its more like old M cars - CSL, breadvan Z3 etc

Gen 2 prices could go down, but they are propped up by volumes, the relative cost of a gen 1, and the new prices of later models. They are just as likely to go up[/quote]

Thanks.

I'm inclined to think you're right. I understand that the Gen2 were 2009 - so were introduced during the last financial crisis, a time of low demand so there are far fewer of them around.

I could get the 435i and wait and get an early 991 at some stage.

pcat · 29 Oct 2017

I had 5 BMWs, including 2 M cars before the 997

You'll lose a fortune on a 435i. I had a nearly new 335i and a 135, they dropped 6-7k a year. The 1 series i bought for 28k and sold 18 months later for 16

BMWs are financial suicide unless they are a low volume M special, or a classic

The only one i wish i had kept was the Z4M

kurlykris · 29 Oct 2017

Are Brits Losing Their Taste for Porsche and Mercedes?

Mercedes most definately for me, 2nd E class V6 CDi and the same fault as the first one 3 years ago......................in the garage as we speak and a £2000 bill to follow............

It will be replaced with either a Jaguar XE 2.5 S, or, a little more off the wall, a Ford Mustang Ecoboost :grin:

I`ll never buy another new German/European car, Brexit and all that :thumb:

Monkeynutz · 29 Oct 2017

bludger said:
I drive a BMW 330ci at the moment but it's long in the tooth.I'm toying with the idea of getting a 997 gen2 instead of my original choice which would be a BMW435i.

I'm inclined to wait a little because I think we are in for rough economic times and prices may soften. However, do I get the drift here that in this case I may have to wait a long time as values seem to be hardening and I want to gen2 with PDK and am not prepared to go back to a gen 11?
Thoughts?

A few people told me the same 11 months ago. I was close to chopping in my 2 yr old 420d M for a new M4, the dealership were throwing everything at me. However, at that price I started looking at Porsche, 718S originally although I really wanted a 991.1 but couldn't stretch. By chance I found a 997 that I fell in love with and it was cheaper than a M4 and 718S. I chuckle now when I think of the money I lost in 2 years on the 420 and the money I would have lost now on the M4 11 months later both depreciating at £10k-ish per year for the first couple of years. I thought I bought at top money and was prepared to lose a stack when I picked up the 997 but clearly the best car purchase I have made in the last 10 years for a variety of reasons

I don't see the 997.2 appreciating much more but who knows! There seems to be a massive demand for P-cars between £30k-£50k. Regardless of market I think these cars will be more resilient to depreciation than a similar priced new Merc/BMW/Audi etc.

Try building your dream new 991.2 or 718 and the value of the older cars (even at today's prices) is hard to ignore

squelch · 30 Oct 2017

PCP's are the next PPI fiasco!! I've heard that some car manufacturers' finance companies are already setting aside funds in preparation for the claims:

'I've been paying £300 per month for three years and now they want £15k or they're taking my car back boo-hoo! They didn't tell me about that balloon payment! Boo-hoo!"

The authorities will ignore the fact they've had a brand new car with all maintenance costs covered etc and the compensation payouts will be doled out for their hardship (also totally ignoring the contract they signed up to).

Cue the phonecalls, 'good morning sir, our records indicate you may have been mis-sold a pcp...."

bludger · 30 Oct 2017

Monkeynutz said:
bludger said:

I drive a BMW 330ci at the moment but it's long in the tooth.I'm toying with the idea of getting a 997 gen2 instead of my original choice which would be a BMW435i.

I'm inclined to wait a little because I think we are in for rough economic times and prices may soften. However, do I get the drift here that in this case I may have to wait a long time as values seem to be hardening and I want to gen2 with PDK and am not prepared to go back to a gen 11?
Thoughts?

Click to expand...

A few people told me the same 11 months ago. I was close to chopping in my 2 yr old 420d M for a new M4, the dealership were throwing everything at me. However, at that price I started looking at Porsche, 718S originally although I really wanted a 991.1 but couldn't stretch. By chance I found a 997 that I fell in love with and it was cheaper than a M4 and 718S. I chuckle now when I think of the money I lost in 2 years on the 420 and the money I would have lost now on the M4 11 months later both depreciating at £10k-ish per year for the first couple of years. I thought I bought at top money and was prepared to lose a stack when I picked up the 997 but clearly the best car purchase I have made in the last 10 years for a variety of reasons

I don't see the 997.2 appreciating much more but who knows! There seems to be a massive demand for P-cars between £30k-£50k. Regardless of market I think these cars will be more resilient to depreciation than a similar priced new Merc/BMW/Audi etc.

Try building your dream new 991.2 or 718 and the value of the older cars (even at today's prices) is hard to ignore

Yes, I monitor the used values of 435i's and they have come down even over the last few months. They are a trickle at the moment because three year leases are only just ending and the car was introduced late 2013.

OTOH doing a search for 997 Gen2 on Autotrader gives few examples and these are now fixed because the car is no longer produced so I can't see these declining hugely, unless we get a major crash 2, which I would not rule out.

Shaoxter · 30 Oct 2017

squelch said:
PCP's are the next PPI fiasco!! I've heard that some car manufacturers' finance companies are already setting aside funds in preparation for the claims:

'I've been paying £300 per month for three years and now they want £15k or they're taking my car back boo-hoo! They didn't tell me about that balloon payment! Boo-hoo!"

The authorities will ignore the fact they've had a brand new car with all maintenance costs covered etc and the compensation payouts will be doled out for their hardship (also totally ignoring the contract they signed up to).

Cue the phonecalls, 'good morning sir, our records indicate you may have been mis-sold a pcp...."

But the whole point of PCP is that you get a guaranteed future value... so the risk isn't on the consumer anyway.

squelch · 30 Oct 2017

Shaoxter said:
squelch said:

PCP's are the next PPI fiasco!! I've heard that some car manufacturers' finance companies are already setting aside funds in preparation for the claims:

'I've been paying £300 per month for three years and now they want £15k or they're taking my car back boo-hoo! They didn't tell me about that balloon payment! Boo-hoo!"

The authorities will ignore the fact they've had a brand new car with all maintenance costs covered etc and the compensation payouts will be doled out for their hardship (also totally ignoring the contract they signed up to).

Cue the phonecalls, 'good morning sir, our records indicate you may have been mis-sold a pcp...."

Click to expand...

But the whole point of PCP is that you get a guaranteed future value... so the risk isn't on the consumer anyway.

And that works for many people - if you stay within the mileage limit, return the car without damage, marks / stains or kerbed wheels etc and are ready / can afford to sign up to another three year deal then yes, you can happily continue to effectively rent a car and never own an asset (albeit a depreciating one). A new car every three years - the neighbours will think you're doing well! Sadly though a great many people got all starry-eyed about getting (not owning, remember) a brand new car and they signed up. Three years later and they realise that the £300 per month would be better spent elsewhere and the novelty of having a new car has worn off and their car is taken away. Reality hits and they look to blame someone... And just like PPI the authorities will side with the residents of Stupid Street and the institutions will have to pay out.

Are Brits Losing Their Taste for Porsche and Mercedes?

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