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CLR Project Leichtbau: adding lightness to the tune of 250kg

ELA said:
Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts gents :thumb:

I thought the overly wordy guff might put a few off so I'm glad it didn't scare everyone. Just to be clear, Heart refers to Engine/powertrain, body = chassis and Soul is the tactile/feel element. If somebody wanted the Essence package for instance, it would include all of the elements in the Heart/body/soul fields under the Essence column. If you wanted Evolution it would mean you get all of the Essence column plus the Evolution column...

Just to clarify on a few other things I picked up on; I'm no marketing strategist and will probably never be able to cater for every single config that everyone would personally want but my thoughts on this matter are that Singer have a successful thing going on, as far as I can see. Now I don't think the world is quite ready for a 996 Singer just yet but feel that a 3 pronged approach could be the way forward. I feel Singer do not offer parts as it would dilute the brand and I don't really want to turn into a tuning shop selling parts especially when you have the potential shipping issues for large carbon panels. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. My intention is to spend my days twirling spanners and seeing through the creative design aspects of this concept in order to create/offer a truly magical driving experience. All of the design thus far is for both 996 and 997 models. I know I have taken a 996 as the base but in all phases, I have contingency measures in place to ensure the 997 is also on the cards.

I don't see this venture as a business person would and don't want to get rich off the back of this. I have spent serious money getting to where I am already and feel very lucky having got to this point already with my own personal tailored 911. The creative design and rewards from driving such a car is what does it for me. I want to try and offer the absolute best products available for 996/997 but at an affordable (relatively speaking) price. For instance I've roughly calculated that if I sold the Essence package for €21500+VAT I'd be just scraping by but would need to be constantly churning out cars. This would never include the infrastructure and development costs at over €130,000 I would have spent to get a full working demonstrator. I then need a workshop with ramps...
I know it sounds expensive but if you tally up the parts prices alone you will see that there is no money being made here; exhaust alone will cost you £5k. Then registering and running a business in Germany is not cheap etc.

I don't know if it is remotely feasible to make this work but we only live once and I have already got myself far deeper into this than I ever thought I would.

I'm not sure if that answers all of the questions but would like to thank you all for your support throughout this project and for your thoughts on this idea :thumbs:

ETA:
Ben/Paul: Jethro Bovingdon was lined up to drive the car in August but due to a few development issues (continuing still), I was not happy to present the car to him when it wasn't ready so this is on the back burner at present. As I respect his opinion massively, I want his take on the performance differences as he drives a fairly modded 996 himself. I was planning to use his opinion to describe the feel, performance changes and 0-60... so for this reason I haven't mentioned these figures. Also this car isn't about numbers. In simple terms it will deliver greater performance figures 0-170mph than a 996TT but it is the feel elements: sound, character and how well it drives... that are not possible to describe with numbers and that really is the raison d'etre.

Harv: I've not forgotten the GT3 throttle. I still plan to try this option. I just want to get the current set-up thoroughly tested and dyno proven to see where it currently is.

EGTE: That really is a kind offer for a ride in your car. When I'm next in the UK I'll be knocking on your door :thumb:

Marky: Thank you, true gent as ever :thumb: I think I answered your point above. Dammit again I think I answered your question above hopefully. Pothole both the 996 and 997 models apply :thumb:

ELA this is a mighty impressive project. Hats off.

The €21.5k you mention is not too bad, IMO, given the work and the inclusion of £5k exhaust and Ohlins suspension. The only thing I would personally not want is the Fuchs wheels as I'd prefer to go full sleeper.
 
I've been transparent about the cost of adding Ohlins to my car - with the exhaust you're at half the cost of the full package already.

I'd agree it seems good value.
 
Don't forget those are CLR-spec Fuchs: super light, strong (forged) and with minimum offset (maximum width), all to achieve best handling response. I've been extremely please with mine.

Considering blacking up the centres (only with Plasti-dip, probably) to get this (sort of) look, which is pretty stealthy:

Vf8fYfa.jpg
 
I would offer 3 different options for the wheels. They are genuine Fuchs and pretty much the lightest wheels available (I saved 22.9kg with my wheels/tyres). Here are the 3 options:

37777537591_e6361bc017.jpg


Black, Silver and Black/silver (RSR) like on my car:

37083784232_e2a0c0940e_k.jpg


In terms of the parts price, here are a few of the items:

The Fuchs wheels are around £2100
Ohlins are around £2500 (for 996C2)
CUP2 tyres are around £750
Inconel625 exhaust £5000
Top mount+top caps £680
LCA £1508 (Cost me + TUV approval later)
Ducktail £1500+Prep/paint
RSS engine mounts £435
SSK £327
LWFW £885
Clutch stage 2 £556

My Essence package above includes much more than what I have just listed + around 60hours labour, geo, paint...
Also many misc items I forgot to calculate like saw blades, brake fluid grease, tyre fitting (€80), new steering arms, exhaust gaskets/bolts, wheel centre caps. So I probably have to sit down and properly go through it for accurate costing.
 
Have you considered offering each heart/body/mind for each level of "trim" as individual packages as well as all three to make up the complete trim level.

That way you will have a wider market, since more people could afford them and build up to a complete trim over time by buying the three packages.

Also, this allows some level of bespoke creation, which we all like to do virtually and discuss on line and also in practice. So for example, somebody may want to do an extreme level in say "mind" but "essence" in heart/body.
 
Sorry, soul not mind! I'm jet lagged!
PS I think what you have done and are proposing is brilliant.
 
c3p0-2000, thanks for the feedback, the table was just an initial idea I come up with which may be a direction I take this in the future. Nothing set in stone just yet as there is still some way to go with getting the project finished. It's been some time since I had a chance to work on the car but I made inroads today into trying to find a solution to an issue I've been having with the new LSD:

Gearbox output flanges and diff cover unbolted:
37753540955_05cbbd6dbc_h.jpg


Diff cover removed:
37753539205_176de1593e_h.jpg


LSD removed:
37753537465_c1b1eb8e4c_h.jpg

37753535215_5f16acd7aa_h.jpg

26865506849_f5c98ac381_h.jpg

26865505399_ef34350d58_h.jpg


I'll hopefully get a chance over the coming days for some detailed checks to make inroads into finally resolving the issue.
 
Had a good check of the LSD today vs the stock M220 LSD:


Here they are side by side (M220 on Left)
26880749879_9a28bfa8b2_h.jpg


I know it's a long shot but does anyone have any experience with the 996 gearbox stripdown? Is this part here under the tapered roller bearing (around 2.5mm thick spacer) stock?

38600896866_181449d105_h.jpg


From the picture above it looks as though this was transferred over from the LH LSD (previously fitted M220 LSD) as there is clearly marking on the LH LSD that would suggest so.

Also when the diff output flanges are bolted in, are they supposed to be mated/butted up to the LSD as per below?:
37769340055_6f2a65e8cd_h.jpg
 
Since having the new LSD fitted back in May I've pretty much been having a nightmare ever since. Redesign and refit numerous times and it still isn't right. I decided yesterday to strip it down myself and try and find the cause. Here are a couple of vids to highlight some of the issues:



 
As per here then i think its number 4 and is part of a standard diff ( different sizes though ) .. but as you know i dont have a clue when it comes to LSD :(


Seems to be the wrong side of the bearing ? :dont know: see what you think from the link


http://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?MAK=3&MDL=25&TBL=2558&SMA=&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0

Id also love to know the answer here as i cant belive this is normal for these to make so much noise .
 
I see what you are saying Demort from that diagram but I have 2 standard LSD's to reference and they both have the spacer behind the taper bearing but with a shim difference from 1.5mm to 2.8mm I think you need to refit and measure your diff casings distance and work it out from what you have and what you need to order, it seems you will need a thicker pair of shims.

EDIT, I think I would pull the bearings and spacers off but refit the bearings after, refit the diff and tighten up the side casings. The bearing should move inwards on the shaft and then once tight should leave a space between the bearing and diff, this should give you the shim size you need by adding both sides gaps sizes together then dividing by 2?
Be careful not to crack the side casings though, so I would grease the bearing inner surface to lower friction.
 
infrasilver said:
I see what you are saying Demort

Thanks .. i admit this is way beyond what i do but ive been trying to help on this for a while and its very frustraiting for me not knowing anything about this .

You have the actual LSD to reference so thats far better than any parts picture :thumb:

Im guessing its for pre load .. hence the different sizes so fitting it on the outside would allow adjustment without removeing the bearing :dont know:
 
The taper bearing are even sided by the looks of it (different part numbers?) so if they were fitted on the wrong side that could be another issue, but I do suspect that thicker shims are required.
It would be set at the factory when the gearbox is being built but as that is a different casting of an LSD it could be slightly smaller than a genuine one so requiring bigger shims, if the factory LSD's needed shimming when being built I can see no reason why an aftermarket one wouldn't?

My two LSD's with the shims behind the bearing.
24789409338_34373c3200_k.jpg
 

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